The Meet Hope Podcast

Second Listen: Bridging Faith and Technology: Finding Community Online with James Lee

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Hello, HOPE Podcast Listeners; we live in a fast-paced world where new material and ideas are thrown at you 24/7. Some of you told us this and said, "I want to listen to everything, but it's hard to catch up!" Well, we're here to help. We desire to be a place that is grateful for and respectful of your precious time. And so, to serve you best, we will every so often be resharing past episodes that we call second listen - because we think they are worth taking a second to replay! Even if you are an every week listener, we think having a second listen to these episodes will make an impact on your week and life. And if you have heard this one but are behind on new episodes, now is a great time to catch up on any others you have missed! 

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ORIGINAL SHOW NOTES (8/2023)

For this episode, we're welcoming James Lee, Director of Communications for the United Methodists of Greater New Jersey and Eastern Pennsylvania.  This episode is a deep dive into the innovative world of online ministry, moving beyond merely streaming services to fully embrace the potential for technology to enhance faith communities and connect people to the local church. 

NOTES & RESOURCES:

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Intro 1:

Hello Hope Podcast listeners. We live in a fast-paced world where new material and ideas are thrown at you 24-7. Some of you told us this and said I want to listen to everything, but it's hard to catch up. Well, we're here to help. We desire to be a place that is grateful for and respectful of your precious time, and so to serve you best, we will every so often be resharing past episodes that we call Second Listen, because we think they are worth taking a second to replay. Even if you are an every week listener, we think having a second listen to these episodes will make an impact on your weekend life, and if you have heard this one but are behind on new episodes, now is a great time to catch up on any others you have missed. Thank you, and here we go you.

Intro 2:

And here we go. Welcome to the Meet Hope podcast, where we have conversations about faith and hope. Hope is one church made of people living out their faith through two expressions in person and online. We believe a hybrid faith experience can lead to a growing influence in our community and our world for the sake of others. Welcome to Hope.

Jeff:

Hey everybody, welcome to the Meet Hope podcast. I'm Jeff Bills and I am excited to be joined today by a colleague, the Reverend James Lee. So, james, welcome, glad to have you with us.

James:

Jeff, it's a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Jeff:

So James is a pastor, but he is currently working as the Director of Communications for the Greater New Jersey Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church. I don't know how you fit that on a business card that sounds so important and serious.

Jeff:

It really does and scary. And that's not all. He also is the same position for the Eastern Pennsylvania Annual Conference. That is correct. So big, big job. I want to talk to you about that in just a moment. But just so folks get a chance to learn a little bit about your real life, tell us about yourself.

James:

Yeah, so once again, thanks for having me on the podcast. I'm very excited to be here. I'm honored. Thanks for inviting me. I'm James Lee. Reverend Lee is my dad, so just call me James. So you're a pastor's kid. I am a pastor's kid, that is correct, and I'm married to my beautiful wife, julie, 11 years, and we have three kids Amy, adam and Renee. They're eight, six and three. Renee is turning four next month. You're a busy man. My heart is full. Yes, absolutely, and yeah, I started serving as the director of communications for two conferences since October. Before that, I've been a pastor in different capacities for about 10 years, so excited to be here.

Jeff:

Yeah, so you're communications director for an annual conference, and so that's for those of you who are not Methodist by background, that is, all of the churches in New Jersey, as well as some churches in PA, new York.

James:

Yeah, so there's very few churches in New York, some in Pennsylvania, about 600 churches in greater New Jersey and then about 400 churches in eastern Pennsylvania.

Jeff:

Wow so, 1,000 churches.

James:

Yeah, so that's from Philly to Lancaster is the eastern Pennsylvania conference. Yeah, so we do all things newspaper, email marketing, social media, video production basically trying to cultivate connection, make sure we are reminded that we're all in this together. Maybe there are messaging coming from the bishop that we would also share Just open, honest conversations across clergy church leaders. Just open, honest conversations across clergy church leaders. And ultimately, our mission has been to equip and recruit transformational leaders, Because when the leader's better, everyone gets better.

Jeff:

I love that, I love that. So you guys, you have a team.

James:

Yes, we have an editorial manager who oversees the newspaper. We have an editorial manager who oversees the newspaper. We have a graphic designer, a video producer, an IT web specialist and administrative staff. So we're a team of six and I love them. They do great work and it's such an honor. Sometimes I just wonder why I'm there, Because they do all the amazing stuff and I just keep encouraging them. I'm like the official cheerleader, basically, at this point.

Jeff:

So you and I have the same job. That's right, that's it. That's it Very cool. Um, so that's what you do, but, um, what we wanted to talk about, uh, today, what I wanted to talk with you about today more specifically, is online ministry.

Jeff:

So, it's something I know you're interested in. We've been interested in since COVID when we, like every other church, we had to suddenly get online somehow and so we started again like everybody else. So we had an iPhone on a tripod and just tried to put something out there. Yeah, we've come a long way since then, but what we're talking about is a ministry that's online, not just a worship service. Correct, absolutely yes. Talk about that for a second.

James:

Yeah. So before I went into full-time ministry, I was a video producer. I was a freelance video producer. I would make wedding films, I would make commercial films. I loved being behind the camera and when I finally accepted the call to ministry, I packed up my camera gear and put it in the closet, so to speak. I said, lord, I'm here, I'll be obedient to your call to be a pastor, and my camera gear kind of sat in the back.

Jeff:

Yeah, yeah.

James:

Well, I would say pre COVID. I remember conversations about online church was sort of a taboo there were a lot of churches that didn't like talking about it. Back in 2013, I believe and Jeff, you may know this better there was bishops of the United Methodist Church got together talking about online communion and basically their verdict was no.

Jeff:

No, it doesn't.

James:

And their reasoning behind that was that this is essentially spiritual consumerism, that this is not real church, was essentially what they said in fancy language. And me? I've always been interested in technology and how it brings us together and I was always asking those questions of what does online communion, what does online community look like? And even before the pandemic I was in my particular ministry context we were having those conversations. Well, interestingly enough, during the pandemic, by May of 2020, 100% of our churches were online across greater New Jersey like 600 plus churches all online. These same churches that were saying no, this is bad, this is not a good thing. They were all online and what it proved, at least, was that community that is perhaps physically apart but through online platforms is possible.

James:

What I am especially interested in is to go beyond just having the camera in the back and pressing the live stream button. The mission of the church is to make disciples of Jesus Christ for the transformation of the world, and I think every church would have a slightly different idea of what a disciple might look like, what it means to live out the calling of following Jesus in their context, but in our church we said a disciple is someone who worships and gets to know God through worship, grows in faith through small group and serves the world through mission. I know here at Hope Church it's worship plus two.

James:

Right, it's attending worship small group, growing in accountability in your faith and then somehow practicing that faith and serving the world, right, yeah, my question was that I've been wrestling with was is that possible only through online means? Can a disciple of Christ be made through online? And if the answer is yes, what does that look like? And the pandemic was the greatest opportunity to explore that, and in our church, people were worshiping online. We had online small groups that were happening weekly. In fact, our small groups really blew up during the pandemic. We had very little small groups before, but now everyone was part of a small group at that point, looking for that sense of community because they're on lockdown.

James:

Yes, yes, because they're on lockdown. Yes, yes, but interestingly enough, those small groups naturally were asking what can we do together Now that we're together? They were inspired by the word, inspired by the scriptures that they were studying and saying what can we do? In my particular context, there was a call from a distribution center near us that would support about 60 to 100 families who were in need, and, because of the pandemic, a lot of the resources and volunteers unfortunately just pretty much hit rock bottom right, disappeared, and so we asked what can we do? And they said well, one thing we do is we provide meals to all these families. Can you make sandwiches? And we said, yeah, we could do that. And so the small groups would meet. I have a video of this.

James:

The small groups would meet on Zoom and read the word together and while they're on Zoom, they would start packing sandwiches from their kitchens and they would coordinate drop-offs and all these things. And that grew to then other social services in different, different towns around our church. We, within the first two weeks excuse me, within the first two years of the pandemic, we packed a hundred thousand meals. Our church of maybe a hundred, 150 people that is online church, right. A community that worshiped a hundred percent online grew in their faith and their accountability through small groups and said what can we do to live out our faith and make a difference in?

Jeff:

the world. So it's it's possible to do that. The other thing that we discovered was that, suddenly, geography no longer mattered. Yeah, yeah. We had people who were deeply a part of our community, who moved to other states out of the area, who reconnected with us because they could now online and, like you said, not just showing up on a Sunday for a live stream worship service, but then getting involved in our small groups.

James:

Yeah, Not to sound like an old school guy, but no danger of that, james. But the founder of Methodism, john Wesley, said it best the world's, my parish yes, and online ministry lives that out.

Jeff:

Yeah, so what do you think are the unique challenges to an online ministry?

James:

Yeah.

Jeff:

Because I've got my own sense of that.

James:

But I'm interested in what of that, but I'm interested in what Now? The 2013 or 2014 or so analysis from our bishops about the dangers of spiritual consumerism isn't completely false, right? So I would argue that even in-person church right 100% you could be practicing spiritual consumerism, but there is certainly a higher probability or tendency for that to be something that happens. Another challenge I would say is a lot of folks try to engage or cultivate an online community with methodologies that work for in-person community.

James:

That's interesting community with methodologies that work for in-person community. Oh, that's interesting. So it would be important to note that how you live out and cultivate an online community is a completely different medium. It's kind of like comparing books to TV shows. You know you wouldn't point a camera to a book as you turn the pages and call that a TV show. Many churches, unfortunately, just leave a camera in the back and press a button and think that's online church and that's not it. There are certain nuances. There's different methods of storytelling and engaging in folks. Even the language we use is a little different when we're engaging with folks online, so it's almost like learning a different language.

Jeff:

It's true, and I um, we've been, you know, kind of figuring that out as we go along. You know what works online versus what works in the room, and we do a hybrid thing. So we have, uh, our services happening live in a room, but we're also live streaming and that's being saved so people can watch it later. And how do you communicate with both of those audiences?

James:

Yeah, and different people will interact differently, and at least how the church is lived out today. I think it is a hybrid approach. So I think about how I interact, let's say, with my wife I I I was just texting her before we started this podcast right. We're using technology to communicate back and forth and connect, sure, but I'm also looking forward to going home tonight and having dinner with my family in person, right, so so?

Jeff:

So both and not either.

James:

I think the both and is going to be more prevalent. Yeah, although there are relationships that happen solely online. So, for instance, there is a person that I built a friendship over church communications. This person is a director of communications of a large church out in Oklahoma. Okay, and I've never met her in person, right, but through email, chat, zoom calls, we have connected and we challenge each other, grow together. You wouldn't say that relationship is not real. Nope, no, that is. I would consider her a close friend, right. So that's the way. So there are, and technology is only going to get better. So, you know, I continue to dabble in, like in VR and meta, and I don't think we're quite there yet, but the relationships we have online and the interactions are real and the spirit is there.

Intro 1:

Yeah.

James:

There was one person I won't say say their name per se, but they were on the chat when we were doing a prerecorded online church during the pandemic, okay, and this person was sharing their struggles of of drug addiction and we connected and this person kept coming every Sunday online, at least on the chat, and I would know them by name and continue to check in and say, hey, how are you doing? How are you doing? Yeah, when we opened back up about three months in, this person showed up to church in person and I knew his name, he knew mine. Um, the connection we had across that year was real and the spirit was there. Yeah, right, and so, yeah, maybe perhaps we're missing out on like body language and those kind of nuances that we can read when we're in person.

Jeff:

Right.

James:

But the spirit moves in different ways in the online interaction. I think it just boils down to always not losing focus on the mission. Yeah, but the method will always change.

Jeff:

Great, yeah, that's great. But the method will always change. Great, that's great. Any churches?

James:

actually, before the podcast started, we talked about a church that you know in I think you said North Carolina that's doing it in a kind of creative way yeah, and I'm totally being an online stalker when I say this, but Checkpoint Church out in North Carolina, pastor Nathan Webb. He refers to himself as the nerd pastor.

Jeff:

Okay.

James:

And when I think about online church and especially the language of online community, he speaks it fluently and he uses platforms like Twitch and Discord to engage his particular community and it's really exciting to see what they're doing out there. So check it out. Checkpoint Church.

Jeff:

I will do that. Hey, we usually end these podcasts by asking the person that we're talking to what has you hopeful today? This is a podcast. We say it's meet, meet, hope. It's conversations about faith and hope, and so we like to ask that question as we close out what has you hopeful today, james?

James:

You know, during the pandemic there was a lot of fear of whether the church would survive, and I remember from the pulpit, looking at a camera in an empty sanctuary, I would weekly preach the intangible hope that the church is the bride of Christ and the church will not only survive but thrive. That I held on to sort of this, seemingly like ethereal eschaton, saying the church will not only survive but thrive. Right, the church is the hope of the world. So do not worry, do not be afraid. But it felt very out there and not tangible Right now, in the middle of 2023, I see, certainly, unfortunately, there are many churches, local churches, that had to close their doors, but I'm seeing a lot of churches that are experiencing resurrection and I mean it's a lot of churches that are saying we have grown right, we are bigger than we were pre pandemic.

James:

Right now, that life, giving energy of the local church has become quite tangible. I see it. It's a, it's a visible reality now. So that gives me hope that the local church is the hope of the world and churches continue to be creative with their methods, including how can we use online tools to serve, to make disciples and serve the world, and I'm seeing that, so that Jeff gives me hope and serve the world and I'm seeing that, so that Jeff gives me hope.

Jeff:

Well, that's a great word. Thanks for that. Thank you all for tuning in to this podcast. There will be notes about the church that we heard about. If you're interested in checking that out, and if you've enjoyed this, I just want to encourage you to share it with a friend. This is a great way to introduce somebody to not only the conversations, but to Hope Church as well. So thank you all for taking the time to listen to this podcast, and we'll see you soon.

Intro 2:

Thanks for being a part of the Hope Community as we continue our conversations about faith and hope. If you don't already, please join us for worship on Sundays or on demand. You can learn more at meethopeorg or find us on socials at meethopechurch.