The Meet Hope Podcast

110: The Next Chapter for HOPE: A Conversation with Pastor Jeff and Pastor James

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Join in on the podcast this week where Pastor Rick talks with Pastor Jeff and Pastor James about the process that led to being appointed as HOPE's next lead pastor. Hear from both about what excites them about the future of HOPE as we get to know Pastor James and look towards the next chapter for HOPE's community.

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Intro:

Welcome to the Meet Hope podcast, where we have conversations about faith and hope. Hope is one church made of people living out their faith through two expressions in person and online. We believe a hybrid faith experience can lead to a growing influence in our community and our world for the sake of others. Welcome to Hope.

Rick Court:

Hey, hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Meet Hope podcast. I'm Rick and I'm really happy to be your host today, and I'm especially excited to have with me Pastor Jeff Bills. Pastor Jeff how are you doing?

Jeff Bills:

I'm doing great, rick, thanks.

Rick Court:

And also in the room with me is Pastor James Lee Woo-hoo. Yes, I am here with royalty here, Pastor Jeff and Pastor James and excited because we are going to talk about process. A lot of different processes. Sounds fascinating.

Jeff Bills:

All the processes.

Rick Court:

All the processes you could have. So, yeah, so we want to do an episode to kind of let our Hope listeners know where we've been and where we're going in this lead pastor change that's taking place and so we're going to talk about the appointment process and that's a United Methodist term. United Methodist Church has a formal process and we're going to do a quick telling of that process and so I'm going to kind of lead you guys with a few questions, okay. So, Pastor Jeff, a bishop appoints pastors, correct?

Jeff Bills:

That's correct. We're appointed to a local church for one year and that appointment is renewed or a pastor is moved at the end of that one-year time.

Rick Court:

Yeah, so it's a one-year appointment that begins in July and it goes through June every year, right? And that pastors can be reappointed multiple years, like you have been, for it'll be 35 or is 35 years. Yeah, and the United Methodist Church has recognized that longer tenures often lead to healthy cultures, and so that's exciting to see. And how does that process happen, james? How does that happen? None of the district superintendents involved, right?

James Lee:

And the church is involved. Yeah, so the district superintendents all get together like this time of year, so between like January and May. They're meeting on a regular basis with each other and with churches to discern. Okay, so, among these churches, how are things going? How is the mission being moved forward? What is the relationship between pastors and the church and to discern? Are things going well or does a change in leadership need to happen? And this is what we call appointment season every year, and announcements are made every Sunday and then the appointments all start on July 1.

Rick Court:

Right, right.

James Lee:

And so now in pastor circles the appointment process is people love it or hate, it or have different opinions about it, right or both at the same time.

Rick Court:

Yeah, so I have a story. When I was going to seminary, I was uncomfortable with the appointment process. I was going through United Methodist Candidacy it was called Candidacy back then and I was uncomfortable with knowing that I could potentially move every year. Be moved, with knowing that I could potentially move every year. Be moved, be moved. Yes, and at the time it seemed that churches were moving pastors frequently and the bishop was moving pastors frequently. So I elected to not be part of that process. But, james, you have a different experience.

James Lee:

Yeah, and I'll say I started that way too. I remember first hearing about the appointment process Long before I knew the bishop or DSs or anyone in the conference. It just felt like folks up in the high tower telling us what to do and I wasn't really interested in that process at all.

James Lee:

That is until I was working for the conference as a video producer. So I had actually long story short. I was in ministry. I said I don't want to do ministry anymore and I stepped away from it and I was pursuing a career in video production and I got picked up as a conference staff doing video.

James Lee:

During that time, as I was working in the office, I saw the cabinet, so the district superintendents and the bishop having an appointment meeting and they have a big glass wall in their main conference room so you could see everything. You can't hear anything and what I saw were about 10 people all godly men and women laughing, arguing, praying and having deep Holy Spirit conversations. It's not a perfect process, but I saw faithful people trying to be faithful to the process and discern what will move the church forward. Their hearts were all in the right place and I remember witnessing that week after week and saying you know, no process is perfect, but maybe I could put my trust in this process. I was feeling a call to go back to local church ministry. Someone had pursued me to be a church planter for their church and I said, all right, I'm interested, I'm in, let's go back to the local church. And I said, all right, I'm interested, I'm in, let's go back to the local church. And I talked to my bishop and the bishop said yeah, this sounds great.

James Lee:

I talked to my DS at the time, was all in and it was a Sunday night. The DS said, all right, I'm going to go into the meeting tomorrow, we're going to pray about it and I'll give you the good news tomorrow. The next he calls me and says so there's this church in South Plainfield called Wesley and I was like where is South Plainfield? This was not what we talked about. And I spent time in prayer with my wife, julie, and we said you know what? Let's trust the process, let's trust the movement of the Holy Spirit. And we followed and we said we obeyed and we went to the church and it was such a formative experience in my leadership. It was a church going through a difficult time. We saw great change, great transition and great fruits of ministry there and I grew so much as a leader. I would not be who I am today if I did not go to that church. That's great.

Jeff Bills:

That's a great story Really. Just to kind of piggyback on this conversation. Having been in ministry now for decades, I've seen other processes play out. So I've seen churches who don't have a bishop appointing somebody. They have a call system where the local church makes the decision, and that's not a perfect system either, and I've watched churches go for a couple of years without a pastor being called or infighting over debates about who should come, and none of that happens in our system. And none of that happens in our system. So a Methodist church will not go without a pastor for a long period of time. That's right. Everybody gets appointed. As James said, they start at the beginning of July, and so there are positives and negatives to all systems, but this one's pretty good, especially, james, as you pointed out, when the people who have that huge responsibility of making these appointments take it that seriously Exactly.

Rick Court:

And so that's the process that we've been going through here at Hope, with James getting appointed.

Rick Court:

So our district superintendent met with our leadership team, there was a consultation and also working with the bishop and the cabinet, and the decision was made that James would be appointed here in July.

Rick Court:

So now that the formal process has been processed and that's the part that wasn't under our control we were trusting in the process I know Sixers fans you don't want to use that motto right now because the Sixers are not examples of a process you can trust. But what, as Pastor Jeff shared a few weeks ago or maybe a month ago now, is that now we can be transparent, moving forward, now that we're beyond the part that wasn't under our control and we want to share that hope has had a process that's been beyond the part that wasn't under our control and we want to share that hope has had a process that's been beyond the process right. And so, jeff, I know you and I talked that 20 years ago when we first started getting to know each other, we were having conversations about me coming to hope and we've told that story multiple times. But you and James have had a similar process.

Jeff Bills:

Yeah. So, as God would have it, james and I ended up in a cohort together. It was a group of four pastors. One of the pastors, the senior pastor at Haddonfield Methodist, chris Heckert, reached out to pastors that he said are doing creative ministry, and you know, let's get together and talk about what we're doing and share ideas and so forth, and so I was excited about that and so I knew Chris the other pastor was in Mulliga Hill at the time and this, james Lee, who I'd never I don't know if I'd never met you, but I certainly didn't know you, we didn't have extensive conversations.

Jeff Bills:

No, yeah, so he showed up, and so that's where I started to get to know James and listen to the ways that he was talking about ministry and thinking about ministry, and I was already on kind of a search mission for who's going to be the next lead pastor. And so, as much as I trust the system, nobody knows this church better than I do, and so I wanted to be able to have some input when the time came, and so that had me looking around and so got to know him through this cohort. And then you and I got together for some lunches that's right, just the two of us and so it was an informal interview going on I don't know if it felt like that to you, but that's what was going on with me like that to you.

James Lee:

But uh, but that's what was going on with me. For me, I think at the time I interpreted as, um, I was bringing value to you and kind of talking about online church and online ministry and uh, I was very self selfishly, uh, seeking leadership development, training, advices and uh, just to grow my own leadership and I would just pick your brain, ask these questions on leadership. So I was like this is a great opportunity to just pick Jeff Bill's brain.

Jeff Bills:

Well, it was, and and obviously the conversations went on and and it became clearer and clearer to me that that James would be a great, a great lead pastor here at Hope Church and I think there were some defining moments. I don't know if we want to get into that right now, but around the time that I was really getting interested I saw you know so you talked about on Sundays they announce these appointments, right. So one Sunday afternoon I check out to see who had been appointed and I see James Lee has been appointed as the director of communications for the conference and I was distraught. I thought, oh, I thought this guy was like really into the local church and now he's taking this conference role, and so it was a thinking right, it was a crisis of confidence.

James Lee:

There were a lot of colleagues who were like are you sure you want to do this? Yeah, there are a lot of colleagues who are like are you sure?

Rick Court:

you want to do this? Yeah, jade. What were your initial thoughts when the conversation first started?

James Lee:

So, the first time this was brought to my attention was early last year. The district superintendent, glenn Conaway, approached me. So now that I was the director of communications I was seeing him pretty much every week and he just asked me, point blank. He said let me talk to you in your office. And he came in and said what do you think about Hope Church? And I said I think it's a great church, it's an amazing church. And he said, well, no, I mean if you were to be the pastor there, church. And he said well, no, I mean if you were to be the pastor there. And, uh, I had extreme. Uh, my first reaction was no, there are so many more better pastors out there who could lead hope and in fact they have great pastors there already. So and I said what about Rick? Great pastors there already. So and I said what about Rick?

Jeff Bills:

Wouldn't.

James Lee:

Rick be a great lead pastor for Hope. And just to jump forward, I know, rick, when you and I first had a very no strings attached lunch, it was our first lunch.

Rick Court:

Yeah, our first lunch, yeah, yeah.

James Lee:

First lunch.

Rick Court:

I did ask you that question Pretty point blank. You asked it out, it out of the gate. I think we still had menus in our hands and you said to me, why is Rick Court not going to be the lead pastor at Hope? And I'm like wow, this guy didn't pull any punches.

Jeff Bills:

When you were a part of a chorus of people asking that question. Okay, okay, yeah.

Rick Court:

And to all of them. What I said to you was, first, I'm not in the appointment process. Traditionally I'm a local pastor, so it's different in that sense. But also, I'm not the right age, I'm not the right demographic to follow Pastor Jeff, because I would do it for eight years and then the church would be in the same process all over again. Personally, I don't think I have the right temperament. I like my role, I like what I do, I'm in a good spot. It's a sweet spot for me and my gifts, my talents, I get to use them and my deficiencies and my weaknesses get covered really well in the role that I'm in and I am happy to be a partner in ministry with the lead pastor and that's the role I have and that's basically, I think, what I said to you. And then I ordered. You know you ordered a pastrami sandwich and I ordered.

James Lee:

I don't know what we ordered.

Jeff Bills:

I don't know what I ordered but I do remember that answer, which is such a selfless answer really. Like you know, if it were all about ego and so forth for Rick, it would have been a very different kind of discussion, but such a selfless kind of response, and the same would be true of Heather and Dave, and so that's what opened up this opportunity for somebody who is not currently on staff. Yeah.

Rick Court:

And so now we've talked about the process behind the process. But, folks, there's still an ongoing process, and we're excited about that part too. So now, james, you and your family have been attending Hope since last July, right June. Last June, yep, yep, but even though you're not appointed until this July coming up, you were already involved in getting to know the staff, the lead team and the church, and how has that been going so far?

James Lee:

Yeah. So just to pull the veil a little bit further, we moved to the area, to Marlton, not knowing if the appointment would happen. But we knew that when we came into the area that Hope Church is a church that we wanted to be a part of, and so we started attending in the summer and got to know folks and we fell in love with the church. Julie and I took a membership class because, again, we didn't know if the appointment would happen or not right.

James Lee:

It was something that was completely out of our hands and we enjoyed the membership class. Julie began volunteering at the food pantry. I began volunteering at the media team in the back. That's great.

Intro:

The cameras.

James Lee:

And we've fallen in love with the church, our kids joined the kids choir. Like it's where we've been welcomed and we feel like we're part of the family.

Rick Court:

So yeah, that's great and that's kind of I love that about watching you come that you immediately decided that being part of the local church meant that you volunteered and that your family got involved and got connected.

Jeff Bills:

I love that because that's kind of who we are A little mantra that I've had over the years that just fits in with this so beautifully. I always said you know, if you're not willing to serve, you're not ready to lead.

Jeff Bills:

I always said you know if you're not willing to serve, you're not ready to lead, and so that had to do with people on our lead team and stepping into positions of leadership. I wanted to see somebody that has a servant heart, that you know they're not looking for positions of authority and so forth, they just want to serve. In those ways just speaks volumes of your heart and just another indication that this is the right person for leading this church forward and the next generation.

Rick Court:

So, James, so what are? Are there any? It's named a few thing, or name something that you're excited about or that you're looking forward to as you get ready to be the lead pastor in July.

James Lee:

I'm really excited to get to know and work with the team. So you know, in previous appointments at churches I worked in communities where I was the only full-time staff. We had full, part-time staff folks. But I love that there's a team here at hope and that that means that we have people with different gifts that can really focus in on what they're good at work together.

James Lee:

You say you love that you could hide your deficiencies right, I love that language because I have deficiencies too, and I love that with the team we could really work together. So that's what I'm really looking forward to getting to know the team, working with everybody on staff and on lead team and beyond.

Rick Court:

So, yeah, I think it's fun, I think it's, I think it's for me personally, it's bringing a fresh perspective to ministry. James and I just had a meeting beforehand and it was fun to we're going through and I said Jeff and I had a dance and we kind of dance a certain way and I said I have to learn your moves. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what they are. Which has been. It's fresh and exciting. It's kinda cool.

Rick Court:

But, jeff, there's another Part of the process. Is a change for you too? Yeah, so you're going to title change. I do, I do, yeah.

Jeff Bills:

So I officially retire. Again, this is the process of the United Methodist Church. I retire June 30th, james becomes lead pastor July 1st. But recognizing that this is a unique church within our area, within this conference, and unique also because I'm the founding pastor, so there are things about this that make it a unique kind of thing. So lead team, recognizing that, wanted to extend the transition period of time to give James the opportunity to kind of get into the groove and find his way with some support. So you're going to be supporting him, of course, and other members of the staff, but I'll be. The title change is from lead pastor to founding pastor, founding pastor. So I'll have this new title and this position of working alongside James and the lead team in a transition process, and so that's still being developed, the job description of that is still being developed, but I'm excited and honored that I get to play some role in bringing James on board and helping him and the staff do the dance.

Rick Court:

Yeah, I think it's a great decision, a great role. Yeah, I'm super excited.

Intro:

I am very excited.

James Lee:

a great role. Yeah, I'm super excited. I am very excited. This is something that I think is typically a weak point in our process. In the United Methodist process, which is typically June 30th, the pastor says bye-bye and then July 1st a new pastor comes in, and if there is an intentional meeting between the two pastors, oftentimes a lot of things fall through the cracks, through the transition. Things are lost in that. But what a gift that I get to work with Jeff for a couple more months and learn from him. And I also plan even after you retire, jeff, I'm still going to plan to reach out to you and still keep you around and make sure.

James Lee:

yeah, you tell me if I am bugging you, but I think, yeah, that time where you'll be the founding pastor and working with us, I see that as a tremendous gift.

Jeff Bills:

Well, and you know, we're buying the house. We talked about this on previous podcasts. Marilyn and I are buying the parsonage. The new parsonage is now in Marlton, where James and Julie live, and so we're going to be living in the Voorhees area. This is our community. This is our church as well. Yeah, and one of the things I'm excited about and I'll probably be saying this a bunch in the next coming months for the first time in 35 years, I'm going to have a pastor. First time in 35 years, I'm going to have a pastor. So it's been a long time since I've had a pastor, and so for me and for Marilyn to step into this place of we get to serve now and just be a part of this community in whatever ways makes sense for us and for the church, and to serve however we can. I'm excited about that.

Rick Court:

And so is that the answer to the question what are you most hopeful about?

Jeff Bills:

Yeah, I mean it's part of it right. You most hopeful about? Yeah, I mean it's part of it, right. So I am most hopeful that this church that started 35 years ago is thriving and that it is poised to do exceedingly, abundantly more than we could hope or even imagine.

Rick Court:

The best is yet to come, yeah.

Jeff Bills:

Best yet to come, for sure. And so and I can't wait to watch it happen I'll be on the sidelines cheering, cheering it on. And so this appointment is such a God thing. And so, yeah, I'm profoundly hopeful.

Rick Court:

Exciting. Yeah Well, jeff, thank you. Yeah Well, jeff. Thank you, james. Thanks and thank you listeners. We're glad that you could join us for this and if this is something that you know somebody would like to hear, we'd love for you to share this podcast with others. And thanks a lot. We'll see you all next time.

Intro:

Thanks for being a part of the Hope Community as we continue our conversations about faith and hope. If you don't already, please join us for worship on Sundays or on demand. You can learn more at meethopeorg or find us on socials at Meet Hope Church.