The Meet Hope Podcast

88: When Faith Carries Us Through: Gabby and Andrew's IVF Story

This week we sit down with Gabby and Andrew, who courageously share their personal journey through the trials of infertility and IVF. Their conversation sheds light on the complexities of infertility and offers a personal look at the blend of frustration and hope, doubt and joy that defined their path. This episode reminds us of the value of living in community, trusting in God's plan, and sharing one’s story to foster hope and support. Whether you’re facing similar struggles or seeking to understand more about the journey, Gabby and Andrew’s story will offer invaluable insights and encouragement. A special thank you to both of them for inviting us into such a personal part of their lives. 

NOTES & RESOURCES:

  • Hear more from Gabby or Andrew in episodes: 15, 45, 50, 61, 63, 81, 82, 83, 86 and a few more! Scroll through our list to find episodes that are right for you!
  • Contact Gabby and Andrew - gabby@recoveredandrestoredtherapy.com, andrew@meethope.org

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Thanks for being a part of the HOPE community as we continue conversations about faith and hope! You can learn more at meethope.org or find us on socials @meethopechurch. Join in for worship on Sundays at meethope.live! Have a question? Contact us at podcast@meethope.org.

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Ashley Black:

Hello listeners. Here at the Meet Hope Podcast, we have conversations every week about faith and hope. We wanted to let you know that today's episode delves into some very sensitive topics around infertility, pregnancy and loss. Before we begin, we wanted to offer a heartfelt warning. The conversation today will cover themes that can be deeply emotional and challenging and may resonate differently with each listener. If you are currently navigating these experiences, please take care of yourself. It's okay to step away or seek support if you need to. Your well-being is the most important thing. We hope that by sharing these stories and insights, we can offer support and understanding and create space for faith and hope. Thank you for being here with us. Let's get started. Thank you for being here with others.

Ashley Black:

Welcome to Hope. Hi everyone, welcome to the Meet Hope podcast. My name is Ashley Black. I'm excited to be your host today, and joining me today are two previous guests, Gabby and Andrew. Hey guys, how are you doing? Doing good, how's it going uh good, uh. So we're talking a little bit about uh really having kids today, right? Like, so we were previously before we recorded. We were talking about all of our own children uh, mine's at camp this week.

Ashley Black:

You were talking about yours becoming a toddler right, so anybody that has little kids um we could probably we see you and uh yes, you're doing a great job um, that's kind of where our story is gonna get to today. Um, but you guys, it's a little bit different today. You both have been on the podcast before. Um, andrew, you work here. You're our worship arts director. Really, you host a lot right in case this is anybody's first episode um and Gabby, you've been on three times now. Two or three times, two or three times, and just want to remind everybody what you do, yeah.

Gabby Morreale:

So I am a licensed professional counselor. I own Recovered and Restored Eating Disorder Therapy Center. I think I had the privilege of being on once with Heather and we talked about the holidays. So, as that comes up, feel free to check out that podcast. And then I was on with Amanda and we talked about how to cultivate positive body image in young adults and teens. Right, you did that earlier this year, yeah. So, you both have been on a couple times.

Ashley Black:

Well, andrew, you've been on a lot but you've been on a couple times.

Andrew Barber:

Not sure why you brought me back, but it's okay.

Ashley Black:

But, but whenever either of you have been on, it's in a more professional sense. So you're helping to host or talk about worship arts and, gabby, you're talking about counseling and mental health, and today we're doing something a little bit different. Yeah right, we're grateful that you are going to be sharing a more personal story to your lives as a couple and as a family and a little bit about how that personal story connects to your faith, and so I think, gabby, you're going to start us off a little bit with some background of your story. So why don't you do that? And, as you go, if there's anything that somebody might not know what that means, just give us a little definition.

Gabby Morreale:

Yeah, definitely so. Andrew and I got married in 2019, april of 2019, which is crazy to think about. We started trying for children. We tried unassisted for about a year and a half and then we started looking into adoption in the summer of 2022. Adoption in the summer of 2022. We realized that wasn't an avenue for us, because we really wanted to try and have our own children. So then we engaged in fertility treatments. We went through Shady Grove in Philadelphia they also have a Chesterbrook location and we had an amazing doctor named Dr Callen. We started with him. We started with a procedure called IUI, which stands for intrauterine semination. We did three of those. They all failed and that sucked.

Ashley Black:

Yeah, what is the time process for each you said? You said three times, but it's not just like today, tomorrow and Wednesday. It's like a chunk of time out of your life, right?

Gabby Morreale:

Yes, for sure. So it's all based on your cycles. So we did one cycle and I think we did October, November, December and then, once the one in December didn't work, we were recommended to move forward with IVF, which stands for in vitro fertilization and it's part of assisted reproductive technology. We started IVF in January of 2022. And then we did. When you do IVF, there's kind of two parts to IVF. There's the egg retrieval process and then there is the transfer process. So first you have to do the egg retrieval process and that's where you do a lot of shots.

Gabby Morreale:

It is not fun for anywhere from 10 to 14 days, and one really interesting and frustrating thing about our story is that we have what's called unexplained infertility. So there was no reason that, based on test, we shouldn't be able to conceive a child on our own. Everything from Andrew looked fine, Everything from me looked fine and we did pretty thorough workups. And I will say, typically what happens is by the end of fertility journeys if there is ever an end you kind of find out why right, you never don't have that answer and there are people who don't get that answer, but they do tend to.

Gabby Morreale:

Sometimes you can have um unexplained infertility, but then, as you go along in your treatment, things come out and they find things or they biopsy things.

Ashley Black:

But did that make it harder for both of you to like decide your course of action, because it wasn't like you had just like oh it's this thing, so you should do that I think so 100, I think it was, and I think it's a through line through this whole journey.

Andrew Barber:

That we're really talking about is that we, we don't know why, and then I think that that clouds like why. I just feel like we often say like why can't it just be easy or why can't it just be normal? Yeah so, yeah, it is, yeah, very frustrating, but it just didn't. It is what it is.

Gabby Morreale:

Situation and I think me on the opposite and I'm like, oh, tell me what's wrong, like let's write something I was like tell me I have pcos. Not that I wish pcos on right, but tell me what's wrong, Like let's let something. I was like tell me I have PCOS.

Gabby Morreale:

Not that I wish PCOS on anyone, but tell me, if you know it's something, then you feel like you can do something about it.

Gabby Morreale:

Yes, which I would say my doctor did say many times like that's not always the case. I know he won an answer, but like that isn't always the case, so sometimes it's OK.

Ashley Black:

And you guys embarked on this journey of not having multiple answers for a long time.

Gabby Morreale:

So many yes, like why did the IOLs fail? Well, sometimes they fail. So we went, we did our retrieval in the beginning of February. Then it takes a week to basically get to blastocyst.

Gabby Morreale:

And then you test the embryos. So let's add the two weeks, which, again, those two weeks are also healing. So you can't really do anything in those two weeks anyway, unless you're doing something called a fresh transfer, which isn't as recommended anymore. So then we're at the end of February. So basically, at that point we've gotten the green light, we're going to transfer. We made it to step two. So again, we have no baby yet we have embryos. We have genetically tested embryos, which is amazing. But we have no baby yet have embryos. We have genetically tested embryos, which is amazing but we have no baby yet.

Gabby Morreale:

We have a hope of a baby at this point and you just said we made it to step two and that.

Andrew Barber:

So that's the transfer right, and well, the reason I I said that when you said it is because it's a lot and it's all just for one step like right, like that, again, like that, that emotional toll of like and all these little steps actually only count as step two and also like Gabby right now is explaining it almost clinically so like we haven't even talked about the emotion and the effect that the drugs had on her and like all of that stuff so like and this is just for the hope of a baby, Right.

Gabby Morreale:

Which, in our case, all worth it Because, as many of you probably know, we have Cassie D'Orville yeah. But we didn't know that. So we then get assigned a transfer date, and our transfer date was on St Patrick's Day of 2022. And we did get pregnant, which was amazing. I will never, ever forget seeing that positive pregnancy test after taking thousands of negatives, like not really but, maybe so many negatives, so many negatives.

Gabby Morreale:

So that was a really incredible experience, but unfortunately, what happened with that pregnancy was that I miscarried, and on Palm Sunday of 2022, I miscarried in a Target is where it started. So it was a big bummer. I was with my niece. I called Andrew. I'm like you need to leave right now. You need to come home right now. Luckily it was. It was after 11, so I think he was able to kind of like scoot on out of here um, because it was a Sunday, and then, um, he comes home.

Gabby Morreale:

I had called my clinic and they basically were like, yeah, they, because they see this all the time. They were very much like, oh well, this is what it is. I had gotten an appointment for the next day. We went in and they did confirm that the pregnancy at that point had passed and then, for anyone who has miscarried, you know, depending on how far along you were, as well as like how your body was where your body was at, you bleed a lot.

Gabby Morreale:

And so, then, for me, it took almost a month for my body to return to baseline which you have to return to baseline before you can do anything else.

Ashley Black:

Yes, so let's pause there for a second. So let's so this. So now this is like the whole two years and you and this and you've gotten to this point where you've gotten pregnant and you've miscarried. I'm curious and I'm sure people who are listening are curious too about, um, some of what you guys were experiencing on an emotional level this whole time, and you know, how does it affect your both of your relationship with each other, with God, like your trust in God, you know, like in a long trying time. So what would you say to any of those things?

Andrew Barber:

I think we had really different experiences and I think it's something we still talk about. I mean, the big part being this was all happening in gabby's body. It wasn't happening in mine. I really had a belief that it was. We were gonna, this was gonna happen.

Andrew Barber:

I don't know why, but I always, every step of the way, like there was a hope, that, like um, that this was gonna work, and there was this interesting that I I couldn't be too positive because it would get on your nerves, but I couldn't be not positive because that would also get on your nerves. But it was this journey of like I knew what. I knew that like the god's timing thing is weird and it's probably a podcast that we could do and it's not just about God's timing but I knew that like I just kept thinking to myself like our story wasn't finished yet. So even I mean, I remember vividly and I don't have a great memory but like that drive home that you just had talked about, from church, it was an hour, it was like the longest, most stress inducing hour of my life and I I used to.

Andrew Barber:

You all were still living in pa at the time yeah, um, and I I listened to podcasts a lot too and I didn't do any listen anything, I just prayed the whole time and it wasn't. There was some prayer about like that moment and like praying that like you know that it wasn't happening or that like you know that this was just a hiccup in the road, but also just like praying for the big picture. That like that, god, if this is your will, like help me see us through it. Because I knew that, like you were already having such a hard time because of all the medications and like we were, literally you were injecting yourself because you were stubborn and wouldn't let me help for a while. This is true Again.

Andrew Barber:

We just did a podcast with Jason a few weeks ago talking about giving more than not God never giving you more than we could handle. And I felt like we hadn't even had you haven't even gotten pregnant yet, and you had already had more that you needed to handle. So for me, there was this I needed to be like an appropriate level of cheerleader that wasn't obnoxious, and I'm probably I didn't I missed the mark, probably often on that, but I believed in my heart that it was going to happen. And there was a prayer of just God. Help us see us through until the time it does. So that was me. What was it like for you?

Gabby Morreale:

My experience was different. I will say for anyone who knows Andrew or doesn't know Andrew, Andrew has a tireless faith in like the most beautiful way. So if you ever need someone not to be toxically positive with you, because that's not his vibe, but someone to believe with you, he will believe with you.

Gabby Morreale:

He will believe that God's story will be told, whatever that is. Yeah.

Gabby Morreale:

Whatever that looks like, he will come alongside you in that way and sometimes it's really annoying, but sometimes it's really beautiful and wonderful. So anyway, that's just something to know about him. His faith is relentless and beautiful. But in my story I was more of the doubting Thomas. I think I've always kind of been. I am a doubter. I also, as a therapist, I treat eating disorders as well as OCD, and OCD is a doubting disorder.

Gabby Morreale:

I also struggle with OCD. So it makes sense that I would be a little bit of a doubter. And in IVF, as I've shared so far, I'm sure people have picked up on there's a lot of unknowns, right. So I'm sitting with all of these. It could be this, it could be this, it could be this, it could be this. So for me, I felt really disconnected and really angry to be honest, which would make sense, right, yeah, I was mad at God.

Gabby Morreale:

I was like why, also knowing we know that God knows us so intimately? And our relationship is so special to him and with him, and I knew he knew my heart that, like, all I wanted was to be a mom. I knew what my prayers were to him for so long.

Ashley Black:

Yeah, You're like. You're like God. I know what we've been talking about for so long, Right, and?

Gabby Morreale:

I know you're on the other end. Like I knew he was there. I definitely will say and I knew he was there throughout the whole process. There were so many weeks where he did show up over and over again. But man was I mad and I just want everyone listening to hear this that like you're allowed to be mad at.

Ashley Black:

God, he can take it, he can can take it, he can take it. And it's interesting sometimes, I think, in our relationship with God to experience, like you said, he showed up in so many ways, like I knew he was there, like I think it does something in us, like when we experience God's presence, but not the way we want to, but it still does something in us, like it still draws us to him. Yeah, so I was thinking when you were talking.

Gabby Morreale:

And I think, allowing myself to be mad Because I think I would feel, and I think a lot of us do this Sometimes we feel like we're supposed to be a certain way with God, but God loves us regardless and wants us to come to him, regardless of how we feel about it. Because he's got it. Yeah, he has got it. He was all over this. I just really struggled to see it.

Andrew Barber:

I think the hardest part and again, and I think that, like that part where we just stopped in the story was like this turning point for me of like, and we were doing all this just for the hope of a baby, it wasn't no one. I mean, our doctor was pretty confident.

Gabby Morreale:

He is very.

Andrew Barber:

Yeah, our doctor, dr Callum, was like, oh, we'll get you pregnant. Like he was just matter of fact, but confident, and like we knew that that's who he was. But there was no guarantee this was going to work.

Gabby Morreale:

No, thousands of dollars, hundreds of shots. We had no guarantee but it was our best shot, because what we were told was that on our own we have a 2% chance, which is a pretty low statistical chance. God is bigger than 2%. I totally believe that and I didn't want to keep wasting time.

Ashley Black:

So that was how we got kind of where we were, and it is an interesting shift. Like Andrew just said, you guys kind of went through this probably like mental shift of like so far you've just been praying and working towards like the hope of a baby, and now it's like the reality has come true and also been grieved, and so yeah, and there was a conversation that we had where I think Gabby was like I don't want to do this again.

Andrew Barber:

Right and I remember, and that was like that was the one time where, like my not not that my faith was questioned, but like I remember, like sitting on the floor of our bedroom in Pennsylvania and like I just burst into tears because I was like trying to be this, like supportive, positive person, and then my wife very understandably saying I don't think I could go through that again and she was talking about all of it, and I think that's like it's not just the fertility part, it's not just the shots part, but it's also the part of this could fail again yeah, um

Andrew Barber:

and that to me. So there's just so many like layers to the, the pre-trauma that you know my wife is going through, and then she's saying like I don't want to do this again, and I just remember being like no, but I know, this is what we're supposed to be doing, and so I think that she saw that I was sad and pathetic and then, okay, I guess we'll do it again so we did do it again yes which I guess leads us back to the second part after them.

Gabby Morreale:

Basically, for me, it took about a month for my body to return to baseline um, and then so we did have an embryo left. That was a girl, which was great. However, after going through the loss, I was like, oh my gosh, the saving grace of our loss was that one embryo, knowing that I wasn't at square one.

Gabby Morreale:

But I was like I don't want to transfer this embryo and then literally be at square one if it doesn't take or if I lose it, and to really be holding my breath even if it does work. So reluctantly, we did a second retrieval, which also sucked yeah.

Ashley Black:

So, you went through that whole process again.

Gabby Morreale:

Again, and what we did differently this time was we increased the medication, which only made it harder on my body, and then I developed something called OHSS, which is ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome. It's pretty rare, but when it does happen it's pretty serious, and this was one of the few. There was again so many places God showed up, but few places that God really showed up. So our doctor was on top of it. People get incredibly sick from that but he was like nope, you're going to take oh, it was awful, You're going to take this medicine. It was called Lovenax and I still had to inject it after the injections, but it basically took a pretty severe case of OHSS to like a mild case.

Gabby Morreale:

So my recovery did stink, but it was. I didn't end up in the hospital. I didn't have to have any extra procedures, Like it really streamlined, and I have friends who have had very different experiences when developing that. So I was like, okay, that was one of the clear times that I was like god is in this because it could have went in a really different direction.

Ashley Black:

It's so hard, I imagine, to hold, like your story, like you mentioned, like I had friends that had this completely happened, completely differently, and like with that and with your whole story. There's not one story or one version of this for anyone, and so you can like know like this person over here did this, or this person did this over here, or God showed up for these people over here and that doesn't. That's not like what my story looks like and just having to hold that I'm hearing you as you talk, like celebrating these little moments and holding them in this balance and we're still figuring out yeah, there was a lot of that and I think there was a lot of like once.

Andrew Barber:

Once we were through it like I think that in that moment that was great, like that was a good thing, but like being able to look back on our story and being like no, god was in it, because I think in so many there were moments where I felt like you. I just remember you being so mad at god. I was pretty mad and then that's um.

Andrew Barber:

We can look back and sort of see god woven through all of it and I think that that's true with anybody's trials like we might not see it in the moment, but when we can look back we can say god is there. And you had said something earlier, actually, that like know, we only want to see God in the moments that we, you know, want, but like God is in the worst times of our lives and the best times of our lives and there were times when this was some of the worst parts of our life because there was such uncertainty but we can look back and know that like there was a trust in the process, because God saw us through.

Gabby Morreale:

So to give everyone a time recap the end of June we got cleared for transfer. At the end of July we transferred and we became pregnant with Kessie Joy Barber, who was then born April 13th 2023, which is also our wedding anniversary. So we got our little love baby.

Andrew Barber:

But I think, and I think it just, we spent two years just getting to the point where, like for most everybody else, is the starting point.

Ashley Black:

Right, that's what I then. That's why I like when you were talking earlier and I paused you when you said, like, and we got to step two right. Like you said you spent. How many years have you just said?

Gabby Morreale:

You said two years, so two years of infertility treatments or ART, um assisted reproductive technology and a year and a half prior trying. So it took us almost. So it was our fourth wedding anniversary when she was born and we literally started trying right after. You know cycle permitting so it was four years.

Andrew Barber:

And I think that like to know, like to take a look, take a step back and look at the big picture, like we started our fertility treatments the same month I started working at hope yeah, so for you, what is that?

Andrew Barber:

and then also at the same time, like our niece moved in with us permanently, for I mean for. So like there was so much happening and that like um, and for me, like I and again, even just thinking about it now like my journey, my journey personally through this was so altered because of the people that God put around me, so the people at Hope. There were so many people. I talked about this last time I was on the podcast. I knew that there were so many people praying for us through this whole process and it started literally the same month, like Hope started the same month that this fertility journey started. So I think it's like this weird god thing of saying like I'm gonna put you in a place that's just gonna surround you and love you and and then put at the time that you most need exactly 100 and again.

Andrew Barber:

I don't even think I realized it until I'm talking about it right now yeah, I'm watching this like people can't see it, but you're just like revelation happened in your and I think that like, and again, I think that talks to and you have, you have a different, uh, people surrounding you story, because you have these different people in your life that went through something similar but, like I had people, like probably hundreds of people, that were just actively praying for us on a daily basis.

Andrew Barber:

I mean, I remember every time I had a meeting with Pastor Jeff, he would say we pray for you every day, and so there was just this mass amounts of love that was just poured into us that I don't think we would have been able to do this. We probably would have stopped that first time, because you know so, I don't know, because you know so, I don't know. But I think that, like being able to see the through line of god being in and through this conversation and through this whole situation, it's that is that I really feel. God put these great people, he put your friend colleen, who I think is like your best friend, who, like you, started getting closer months leading up to this fertility and she went through something similar she's also a fertility doctor?

Gabby Morreale:

yeah, they share a fertility doctor and many other things.

Ashley Black:

This reminds me of like. So when we, when you did the podcast, chrissy and frank andrew, um that it was the same idea of like when we go through really awful struggles that we don't want to go through or want anybody to go through, god often does this thing. Where he does, it opens up like a different community to us. That then becomes a way that God cares for us that we didn't expect.

Andrew Barber:

Yeah, 100%.

Ashley Black:

Yeah, so that was what I was going to ask was this whole process and you just kind of talked about this a lot, andrew, but maybe, gabby, is there anywhere that you could say, that you could pinpoint where you felt held and cared for by God even when it wasn't working, or even when you were angry, or even when you had to do it again.

Gabby Morreale:

Yeah, definitely, I. I think definitely the friendship he mentioned with my friend Colleen was really a game changer, because infertility is really lonely. It's really lonely and I think it's something you really don't understand. And IVF in particular is incredibly isolating because not most people, it is not common for people to go through IVF. I would say I think the statistic is like 1.5 to 3% of live births are from IVF babies.

Gabby Morreale:

So like that's how rare it actually is to go for the process from start to finish. A lot of people use infertility. I think this is sorry infertility treatments in general. I think the statistic is one in eight. It used to be one in 10. Women will be affected and men can be affected by infertility. But I think that friendship, I definitely think that people here also. I think that, like Andrew getting this position, I think he really longed to be back in church and I think it really, when you're doing what you're called and what your passion is, you feel good.

Gabby Morreale:

So even though we were going through a really difficult thing. I think him getting to come here and do what he loves and, you know, be filled up and then come home was just helpful to our dynamic is helpful to our dynamic. And then again, I think there were times throughout my treatment that I felt really held by God. There's one funny story that when I miscarried because it was my first experience being pregnant, as well as just my first experience miscarrying I wanted to see a doctor Like.

Gabby Morreale:

I was like I want to see the doctor and they were like well, it already passed. Like you can see the doctor in two weeks. Like I was like I want to see the doctor. And they were like well, it already passed. Like you can see the doctor in two weeks and I was like what Is that?

Ashley Black:

like clinical versus like this is my first experience with this. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gabby Morreale:

I literally said to someone and I'll never forget this and I will never forget this person, for, unfortunately, how callous they were. I asked them to have mercy on me and they didn't. And they said you can see them in two weeks. I'll put you on a cancellation list. So this will also just speak to the person Andrew is.

Gabby Morreale:

This was three days before our anniversary and on our anniversary we had planned to go out to dinner and when we previously made that plan celebratory, but this was something I was like, nope, I'm not doing anything, we're not doing anything. And he's like what do I have to do to get you to go out with me? And I was like you have to get me an appointment. As I cross my arms on the couch and pull my fuzzy blanket around myself, and he was like, okay, he was like I feel like you've done everything, but okay, now, if you know, andrew, he's not the type of person that's going to call and keep calling and all of those things. But he called and he said this is unacceptable. And he said you will give my wife an appointment. And let me tell you, within 15 minutes I had a call from a doctor and we did go out to dinner that night. So that was a big win and I felt like God was really in that, because he emboldened him, because that's not his vibe.

Gabby Morreale:

He would just be like okay, well, I guess we just have to wait, which waiting is not bad.

Ashley Black:

So it challenged you both to maybe care for each other in ways that are outside of your comfort zone, and in your marriage?

Andrew Barber:

Oh for sure, I just really wanted a nice dinner that too, and we did have a very nice dinner. I think that so much of all of this was stepping outside of our comfort zones, and I mean that. That phone call, that was nothing, I mean that, but my wife stepping outside of the comfort zone of like this girl doesn't love needles I don't love.

Andrew Barber:

So I think that I think that like god emboldened her to do something because she saw the value in it but knew that like there was a greater purpose for all of it. I mean, that's my perspective from the outside looking in.

Ashley Black:

Which I think is really beautiful, and I've seen this happen in lots of people's lives that I know where, when they feel like God has placed something on their heart whether it's work, or whether it's a family, or whether it's a big move or a big change that it feels so impossible, and then I feel like you watch God embolden them and to do the things they didn't think they could do, because they feel so strongly that God has put this dream on their heart.

Gabby Morreale:

Which is so cool, but that was just one of the many places he just how he would show up in little things like that phone call that really shouldn't have happened but happened, or how my second retrieval was actually pretty dangerous but it was taken care of very quickly. Same thing with a procedure I forgot to mention. That doesn't matter. I had in between things and that should have delayed things by six weeks. It didn't. They just we, just everything, just kept moving so really he's just.

Gabby Morreale:

I felt really held by him in ways that I could like see him in what feels like small but really big things, and that was, even though, again, I was angry, I did feel him there if that makes sense.

Ashley Black:

I love that. You just said like what to someone else might seem really really small was a really big thing. But I think that that's like really beautiful because we get to choose. If we look at something really tiny, like a pinpoint or like widen it out really big like, even if somebody else looking at it thinks it's like a little tiny, no big deal, can like grab onto that as like a really big thing God is doing yeah, for sure, and.

Gabby Morreale:

I feel, like he did a lot of that, and then just with everything, with Cassie now being here, yeah, because Cassie is how old 16 months old, which is amazing, and she's very busy, she's a busy busy girl. Very joyful, very joyful. Having Cassie here now and having a live birth and a baby really confirmed for me like nothing is too big for God, like really, like it really put that on my heart of like, even in like the worst seasons, because although we've had wonderful seasons since she's been born, there've been challenges.

Gabby Morreale:

Yeah, and you both work and life right. So even in the most challenging of times like it's not too big for God and that was just so assuring to me and even for people who maybe didn't get their miracle baby I just want to say to you like nothing is too big for him and he loves you so much regardless.

Ashley Black:

Yeah, no, that is so important to say is that's. That's where I would kind of want to maybe kind of end with you guys and and having you answer the question of you know if someone is listening and whether their particular story is similar to your story, or with having children, or if it's they're listening, there's something else right now, and then everything feels, you know, too big, or you know they have a dream and and it feels like impossible or like uncontrollable, or you know just what would you, what would you, what would you say or what have you said. I'm sure there are people you have encouraged based on your story already.

Andrew Barber:

I think too, and I think it's important to speak to people who don't experience this problem is that, like I know you had said something to me yesterday that, like you thought having a baby was going to heal your infertility.

Ashley Black:

Wounds, yeah, wounds, and it's not true, and I'd say it's the same. For me it's a very different level, but you will always carry that.

Andrew Barber:

Yeah, we'll always carry that and that, like the baby, wasn't the answer. The baby is this beautiful gift. So, like, infertility is something you know, we can't just say, oh let's, let's just have another one. You know, there there are so many logistics and stuff that we would have to go through and it's something that it's just it's. If you haven't gone through it. It's not something you can fully grasp and like just being able to show support and not trying to solve the problem or not say, oh, it's going to happen, because it might not so we'll have them listen to the last podcast, exactly.

Ashley Black:

Yeah.

Ashley Black:

Yeah, that's one, yeah but I just I think that like it's so important to just know that, like fertility is something that is so unexplainable still, especially for us unexplained fertility that like it is, it's something that goes beyond like logical thought, like it's an emotional, uh, discrepancy that I just which I think is like one of the theme that you're talking about, I think is one of the the things for us as humans, that is like one of the things that we all wrestle with with god, is that it's unex, like said, it's unexplainable, like so much of God is unexplainable and all we try to do all the time is like explain God, put him in a system, figure out his equation, and it's different every time, and I think you know, the less we try to explain God and the more we try to find out how we trust God, no matter what is, I don't know, a good thing.

Gabby Morreale:

Yeah, for sure. And I would say, just for anyone who is struggling with infertility yes, a baby is not the answer, it's the gift. And there's a lot of healing to still do. But know that God is definitely in the midst of that healing and it might take some time, but he's there. It might take some time, but he's there. But I would also say that if you are struggling, get support. That doesn't have to be therapy. That can be your best friend and a cup of coffee.

Gabby Morreale:

That can be your sister or your brother or someone and, even if they haven't gone through it, talk about it. It is heavy and it is lonely, so definitely talk about it and keep talking about it. It is heavy and it is lonely, so definitely talk about it and keep talking about it, and you're not a burden to those people who love you. They want to show up for you. Let them show up for you, let them listen. Your story holds value. Your experience holds value. Also, if there is anyone listening who is in the infertility process, andrew and I would be happy to talk with you anytime, anytime.

Gabby Morreale:

As friends Support is always a good, andrew, and I would be happy to talk with you anytime, anytime, as friends Support is always a good idea.

Ashley Black:

I was just, that's what we're saying Support is always ideal, community is ideal and that's what God wants. Like we talk, we've actually talked about that. I think it's like this is what I love when God does this kind of stuff, right Is that? I help produce this podcast and I would say like four out of the five podcasts we've done in the past month or so, the theme that keeps coming up is that God wants us in community and God wants us in relationship with each other, and that wasn't even something we planned to talk about. It just keeps coming up in all of our conversations, and so I love that when God's like well, you guys can plan whatever you want.

Andrew Barber:

I'm still going to talk about this, yeah.

Gabby Morreale:

Yeah.

Andrew Barber:

Yeah, I think that just a reminder that, like for infertility or anything in life, like, the journey is almost always longer than what appearances are. So like pregnancy is a very obvious thing, right.

Gabby Morreale:

But like there are so many things that we had to do to get to that that were just as hard in different ways, I would say God's timing is not always our timing, but he always has a plan and he's always there.

Ashley Black:

Yeah always there, which I think, just to wrap up, I think is, you know, is so beautiful and encouraging to hear you both be able to say, to say God is always there, because you had a long period of time where it may have been easy to feel like God wasn't there, because it wasn't what you wanted it to be in your life.

Ashley Black:

So, um so, thank you for both being on today and for sharing such personal pieces of yourself. Like I said, usually you've both been on in like a professional manner and so it's nice to get to know this other side of you. And, um, yeah, for everybody listening, uh, we will include, uh, gabby and Andrew's contact information in our show notes if you would like to reach out to them and talk with them more or find some support, if your story is similar to theirs. And we're so glad that you listened to the Meet Hope podcast and if you have any questions about the podcast, you can contact us at podcast at meethopeorg. Otherwise, until then, we will see you next time. Otherwise, until then, we will see you next time.