The Meet Hope Podcast
The Meet Hope Podcast
86: Choosing Presence Instead of Platitudes with Our Phones Down.
Over this summer, we've been exploring a few phrases in our Christian culture and language that many of us say -- but we don't often consider what we mean when we say it. Today, Jason and Andrew taken on the phrase "God Doesn't Give You More Than You Can Handle." They share why those words can create more isolation than connection AND encourage us that there is a better way to care for one another with our words and actions.
NOTES & RESOURCES:
- 1 Corinthians 10:13
- Contact Jason or Andrew: jason@meethhope.org, andrew@meethope.org
- Listen to Frank and Christy's story on the podcast! Episodes 81 and 82. https://www.buzzsprout.com/2065910/15264457
- Read Lamentations and be reminded that we can turn to God and God sits with us. https://www.bible.com/bible/111/LAM.1.NIV
- NT Wright quote, “Lament means we are not telling God He ought to be doing and we are not telling each other what God is doing. Instead we are saying, ‘Hey, what’s going on? this is not the way it should be…”
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Welcome to the Meet Hope podcast, where we have conversations about faith and hope. Hope is one church made of people living out their faith through two expressions in person and online. We believe a hybrid faith experience can lead to a growing influence in our community and our world for the sake of others. Welcome to Hope.
Speaker 2:Hey everybody, welcome back to the Meet Hope podcast. I'm Andrew and I'm Jason and we're in the dog days of summer so we're hanging out talking and we thought it would be good. I know we've had a couple of conversations on the podcast about just different phrases that have just become kind of part of the lexicon, church lexicon especially. Yes, exactly that maybe don't make sense or, if you actually think about it, or that drive us crazy.
Speaker 2:Very fair, yeah, or to be honest, like when we were talking about. So the one that we're going to talk about today is God doesn't give you more than you can handle, which I think we're. Hobby Lobby probably has a hundred signs right now that say that in various colors and shapes, but I don't find myself saying this much. But there was definitely a time in my life where I really believed this, so why don't we get into it? So question for you right off the bat has there been a time where that phrase or statement has been like thrown at you?
Speaker 3:Where it was the straw that broke the camel's back. 100% yes.
Speaker 2:Many times. Okay, is there one in particular you'd like to share with the class?
Speaker 3:I was telling you a story recently about I was going through a year when I was in Michigan and our church was going through a lot of stuff and we did a messy game night with middle schoolers. Basically just, we went to a farm and we had a mud pit and we did all these fun gross games. We played ultimate Frisbee with an octopus I mean just weird stuff and we posted the pictures.
Speaker 1:Sounds normal to me, a Frisbee with an octopus, I mean just weird stuff. And we posted the pictures.
Speaker 3:It sounds normal to me yeah, exactly, it's a Tuesday for youth ministry but we posted them to our church website and somehow a radio station in Milwaukee found out about this and started hate calling and hate emailing our church and they were talking about how I was the reason why the church was failing. Just church in America, not just our church.
Speaker 2:And you said this was a Christian radio station.
Speaker 3:This was a Christian radio station.
Speaker 2:So Christ-following radio station, yeah, and.
Speaker 3:I was a young youth pastor and I just thought that this was the worst thing and I was already having a bad year and this just was the straw that took it to the next level. And I remember I was on the radio show trying to defend myself, trying to defend our church's honor, trying to explain that this is good for middle schoolers, it's a chance to hang out and a chance to invite friends. And this I remember her name was Ingrid. Ingrid was not having it and she was telling me I was the worst person and I was the reason why churches were failing and I just could not take it. And I remember people coming around me and they were laughing about it, kind of like you are, and they would just literally say, well, you know, I know this is tough, but God doesn't give you more than you can handle. And I remember getting like those twitches in your eye, like one eye would just start blinking the vein popped out yeah, and the?
Speaker 3:vein popped out and I'd be like uh-huh, uh-huh. And I remember just losing my mind because I think the hard part about this God doesn't give you more than you can handle is it's somewhat close to scripture. Yeah, it's just close enough to be kind of true, but not really.
Speaker 2:So it's like the message light, light version. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:So I I think we talked about how it's become almost like a de facto proverb. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And and I I would know I agree, it's like a de facto proverb that I feel like has busted through. Not, there's, like the Christian life, the people that are walking the Christian walk, but then there's the people who are like I, of walk in the Christian walk, but then there's the people who are like I, would almost consider them like culturally Christian. Sure, I feel like that gets it a lot. Like I made the joke about Hobby Lobby, I guarantee you there is a sign. If we go to Hobby Lobby right now, there's a sign that says exactly that and that's, you know, that's what people go to live by, but it's 1st Corinthians, right Is the scripture?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is. I mean, I have it here if you want me to read it.
Speaker 3:Yeah definitely so. It's kind of. It says 1 Corinthians 10,. 13 says no test or temptation that comes your way is beyond the course of what others have had to face. All you need to remember is that God will never let you down. He will never let you be pushed past your limit. He'll always be there to help you come through it. So you can kind of see where the phrase oh God will never give you more than you can handle kind of comes out of this verse and it's just close enough where you feel guilty for being overwhelmed. And there was few people in my life that could tell me early in my career that it's normal to be overwhelmed. It's not unchristian to be overwhelmed. You're not a horrible person. And that was a big struggle for me because it seemed to me that the church was telling me. It seemed to me that people at the church were telling me that you are wrong for feeling overwhelmed and your faith isn't strong enough.
Speaker 2:You've got nothing to worry about. But it's so interesting to me when you're reading that scripture, all of that is God, god will never let you down. But what that phrase is is this is about you. And like so much. I feel like when we take scripture or we take those those simple platitudes, we make it about us, but like that scripture really isn't about what we can or can't handle's more about what god's promised us is. Is that he I mean it's that that it literally says god will never let you down. It doesn't say, oh, you're going to be able to handle it just fine, it's it's. It's that one is really talking about trusting in god, not just saying, well, I'm, I'm good. And if I imagine if you had people surrounding you saying like, hey, this sucks, yeah, I love, yeah, I love you, god's with you, I'm with you, let's pray together. Like that means a whole lot more than just don't worry about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean when we drill down into this. This really is about tests and temptations, Like we actually drill down into it. But I think you're onto something in that there were a few people around me that were saying it sucks, that were saying this is hard, it's not fair. But the nicest thing they did for me is they didn't give me answers, they just kind of sat with me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think what you said a few minutes ago is right, that statement, the God can't give you thing. It's saying why are you worried? Just you're fine. But no, you weren't fine, I was not. And I think that God's promise to us is that he's with us in the peaks and the valleys, no matter what. So when we're not okay, God is with us and he's okay with us not being okay.
Speaker 3:Yes, I think this is where I think the church well-meaning people in the church can really mess up, because somehow we get into our heads that God is not okay with us not being okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And yet all over scripture we see biblical characters not being okay. Yeah, I mean, my personal favorite is Elijah, where he just was like I quit and God took care of him and he didn't lecture him, he didn't do anything. God sat with him and gave him what he needed.
Speaker 2:My favorite part is in Job. When Job's drinking brother, he said don't worry about it.
Speaker 1:God won't give you more than you can have.
Speaker 3:That didn't happen.
Speaker 2:And it's so interesting too. I feel like that statement minimizes what the beauty of that Corinthians passage says.
Speaker 2:It almost kind of like, is sort of saying that like, well, god isn't, because God is all powerful, god's got this. And when you're saying, well, no, god isn't going to give you anything worse that you can't almost handle on your own, it kind of limits and humanizes our view of the power of God, because God can get us through anything when we lean on him, when we walk through him. The power of God, because God can get us through anything when we lean on him, when we walk through him. He continues to have our back, even in the lowest of lows.
Speaker 3:He continues to minister to us even in the lowest of lows.
Speaker 2:And puts, I think, and just as importantly puts people in our lives to do that, you know, to minister, to love us through that.
Speaker 2:Because I think that Another gripe that I have with that statement is you know, as church people, as Christians, community is such an essential part of and we talk about it all the time at Hope, we talk about small groups, the importance of surrounding yourself with people who love Jesus. So when you say that well, god won't give you more than you can handle, like you're kind of negating the idea of like no God is surrounding you with people to walk with you and in you.
Speaker 3:Through that, I think there's also when you say that. You usually say that and then walk away. Yeah, exactly, you should say oh God, god's not going to give me more than you can handle. Well, see you later.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's already figured out. The check's already in the mail, you're good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have other things to do. I don't actually want to sit with you and walk you through this, but instead I'm going to leave. I think the question is, instead of saying, just hitting someone with this statement, which we've all grown up almost thinking is a proverb, I think the question is what should we do differently? Instead of just hitting them with oh God's not going to give you more than you can handle and then walking away, what have you found has helped you? I know you're the happy-go-lucky one and I'm the Debbie Downer of the group.
Speaker 2:Only to my friends. So I was thinking about that and a lot of you guys know that Gabby and I my wife and I went through IVF to have our daughter, who's here and is amazing, and we tried a year and a half just normally to have a kid. It didn't happen. And then another year and a half we went through fertility treatments and Gabby did the math. She just, her, did over 600 shots, procedures, scans, blood draws in less than a year and a half, and some of those shots I was doing to her in our kitchen because you had to do them every day, twice a day. And we experienced, we did four levels of a low or something called an IUI. We did three of those and then we had a miscarriage and so we had all these things happen and I can tell you just from my wife's perspective, because I asked and she said that was more than she could handle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, For me going through that loss, I was at church on stage and she was back in Pennsylvania because she was living in Pennsylvania when she had her miscarriage. It was pretty early on, but it was still. It happened and that was more. That drive home was terrible and it was more than I could handle. But what I had was I had a community of people that were already actively praying for me because they knew that this is what we wanted and this is what we desired.
Speaker 2:We had people saying what do you need, what can I do, Knowing that they can't fix the situation, but they knew that if they just would show up, that's all that. You know, that's what God calls us to do is to just show up. So I think and no one once said God, no one said God will give you no, not once was that statement uttered in that time of infertility, in that time of loss, but people consistently were praying for us Actively, Not oh, can you pray for me? Yes, I'm praying, Just actively praying, People saying that they're praying for me every day, and I think that that's what makes a difference. It's not statements, platitudes, Well-meaning.
Speaker 3:I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the people Well-meaning, but I think the biggest thing about it is very few people like. That story is tough because no one really knows the words to say, and everybody knows there are no words to say, and so we stick with what we found at Hobby Lobby and we give a platitude. I think the gift that people have given you and the gift that people have given me is when people put their phone down and actually sit down with me and just sit with me. Sometimes they didn't even have words.
Speaker 3:I mean, I remember I was going through a tough time where I couldn't even leave my apartment and we had a woman named Lynn who was just an amazing person at our church and she literally came and sat in my living room. I was in my bedroom and we didn't interact, but she was there for like six hours. But it was comforting for me to know that she was there and she also loved me enough to know that she just needed to be a presence. And so, instead of a platitude, I think one of the gifts that we can give people is when we hear someone or see someone struggling, setting our phone in our pocket, sitting next to them, just sitting with them, just being present, showing up, yeah, in their mess, in the mess that they find themselves in, yeah, no judgment, no quick fixes, but I think that's what God does for us is.
Speaker 3:God sits with us in our mess. God sits with us in our lows. No judgment, no quick fix, but he ministers to us.
Speaker 2:That story and that idea reminds me of everything that Frank and Christia Pello went through the past six months. I got to sit down with them a couple of weeks ago and we did a podcast together.
Speaker 3:Two-parter.
Speaker 2:It was a good one. Yeah, I, it was such an honor to be a part of their journey and to hear them tell their story. But I remember Christy even I mean we talked about it in the podcast Christy struggling with people's generosity because she was so just overwhelmed with how nice people were being. People were just showing up and half the time it wasn't even a what do you need. It was just I'm doing this. You know, a meal train started. Some people from Frank's school donated like hundreds of dollars of gift cards just to make things easier, and it was all just done. It was not hey, do you of gift cards just to make things easier, like, and it was all just done. It was not hey, do you need gift cards? Or you know. It was just, it was you know.
Speaker 2:I think Christians are people of action when people should be yeah, well, yeah, you're right, we should be, but I think that, like and again, christy's and Frank's story, that is more than anyone should have to handle, the thought of and I remember sitting in a cafeteria with Christy having the conversation of we don't know if Frank's going to live or not, and what does that look like. That's more than one person should ever have to handle.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But she was surrounded by so many people that she knew and he knew that, regardless, they were going to be okay.
Speaker 3:I'm going to say something radically here that very few people say, but there are some amazing parts of the Old Testament that we can look to that there's a whole section of the Bible called Lamentations and there's elements of Psalms which is all about lamenting to God.
Speaker 3:And I was reading something, or I was listening to a podcast by an amazing biblical scholar named NT Wright and he was talking about this idea of lament. Lament means we're not telling God he ought to be doing something and we're not telling each other what God should be doing. Instead, we're saying this is going on and it's not right, but there's not an answer necessarily in this moment. And it's not right but there's not an answer necessarily in this moment. And so you see, in these sections of the Bible where writers of the Bible are just lamenting to God and so like, with the Frank and Christy situation or even the IVF situation, there wasn't an answer at the beginning, there wasn't an answer in the middle. But they didn't need the Hobby Lobby platitude, they needed people just to take action or to sit with them and to engage with them, and I think that's where Christians are called. We're called to engage.
Speaker 3:We're called to set our phones down and engage with someone in conversation, even when we don't know the answers, because sometimes just being in the room or, in my case with my friend Lynn, just being in the same house together, without necessarily even just knowing that someone's there for me if I need it, is the is the real ministry.
Speaker 2:It's not the platitude. No, I think you're you're so right and I think that, like, I always wonder like what? What is it in us as humans that we feel like we need to make platitudes like that, you know, like it would be so much easier. Like we feel like we need to say something, we need to have an answer, like, and sometimes that answer is well, obviously, you know this is going to be fine. It might not be so. Like maybe this is more than you know. What, if, what if?
Speaker 2:Gabby and I never did have a kid, and that was something that we both desired and that was something that was part of it. There was no guarantee it was going to work, but like so were we saying that? Like the thing that my wife from when she was a kid, when someone said, what do you want to be when you grow up, she would say a mom. If that didn't happen, that, oh, no, but it's fine, god won't give you more than you can handle. Like yeah, no, but that, that, but that is more than a person can handle. So I think that like yeah, I don't know why we are a people that feel like we need to say things like that because that makes it about us, you know, or makes it about you. If you're going through something I'm saying, well, god won't give you, you know, but that takes it kind of out of God's hands Is that God is here and in you and in this and with you and through you, through all of this.
Speaker 3:I think we come from a culture of American. You're going to pull your up by your bootstraps.
Speaker 1:It's an individualism.
Speaker 3:And yet the church is all about community, and the church is all about doing life together. Oh, there's one of those phrases.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh no.
Speaker 3:So, but we need a buzzer every time, that's right, but it's it's opportunities for us to come around each other and to sit with each other and to be a resource for each other. I think is a huge thing, instead of just the platitude. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I guess, as we're wrapping up here, is there any final thoughts that you have of someone that you maybe know? Is someone something that you would want to say to somebody that's going through it or is watching and witnessing somebody go through it?
Speaker 3:I think the easier one is to say for the person witnessing something don't be a bystander, Go engage with that person, Be willing to set aside some time and be willing to know that if I engage with this, it may take a little bit of time and that's okay.
Speaker 2:Be the hands and feet.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but you're the gift that God is giving to this person. You're the gift For the person going through it. I think I can speak for both of us. It is okay to be overwhelmed.
Speaker 3:It's okay to not be overwhelmed, don't fall for the lie that you are less than, because sometimes it's just hard and those hard stretches are not. It could be a day, it could be a week, it could be more than that, and I think the Bible is full of examples of people that were overwhelmed and that God ministered to. So for the person going through whatever they're going through, opening yourself up to God, ministering to but also opening yourself up and taking a chance, reaching out to those people that you know that are safe, and sometimes even reaching out to the people that aren't safe, that you're not sure of, because they may surprise you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3:But reach for community. Don't pull back.
Speaker 2:No, I think that's so poignant and just that God is more powerful than all of it. God is bigger than platitudes on Hobby Lobby placards. Like God is a hope of something more and just leaning into him, not because he has this magic wand or we have this magic wand that we can fix, but that we can just rest in his promise that he loves us unconditionally. I just think that, like that, regardless of the good or the bad, god's love never changes, you know, and it's a simple truth. But it is the most important thing God loves you no matter what. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And my wife says there's nothing you can do to make that God love you less.
Speaker 2:And there's nothing you can do to make God loves you more and so, yeah, well, with that, thanks for hanging out today, jason, and thank you guys for listening to the meet hope podcast. If you want to connect with us, go to podcast at meet hopeorg or you can reach out to Jason at Jason at meethopeorg or Andrew at Andrew, at meethopeorg. Thanks for hanging out, guys. Have a good week.
Speaker 1:Thanks for being a part of the Hope Community as we continue our conversations about faith and hope. If you don't already, please join us for worship on Sundays or on demand. You can learn more at meethopeorg or find us on socials at meethopechurch.