Pursuing Anti-Racism is a Jesus thing. It's a disciple of Jesus thing. This week, Betty Joynes and Lori Chewkanes, Members of HOPE's Lead Team and HOPE's Racial Justice Team, continue the conversation with Pastor Rick Court about choosing to be anti-racist and why it is a necessity to how we live our lives as Christian. Betty and Lori share practical ways we can work to end the sin of racism individually, in our families, and in our communities starting today. This episode is part 2 of 2 so make sure to go back and listen to week 1 too!
NOTES & RESOURCES:
Contact HOPE's Racial Justice Team:
Betty - joynesbejo@gmail.com
Lori - mwcllc12@gmail.com
HOPE's Racial Justice Team's Guiding Principle: Truth & justice for all God’s People through the love & example of Jesus.
Quotes and Scripture from the episode:
We don't know what [Jesus] looked like, but if all of the things that we do know about him are true, he was a Palestinian Jewish man living in Galilee in the first century, … So he would have looked like a Palestinian Jewish man of the first century. Cultures tend to portray prominent religious figures to look like the dominant racial identity. - Robert Cargill, University of Iowa
So God created human beings in his own image. In the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. - Genesis 1:27 (NLT)
"A good apology doesn’t include the word “but”.
Take Action: Watch, learn, read and pursue anti-racism. Find resources on our website at meethope.org/endracism.
Thanks for being a part of the HOPE community as we continue conversations about faith and hope! You can learn more at meethope.org or find us on socials @meethopechurch. Join in for worship on Sundays at meethope.live! Have a question? Contact us at podcast@meethope.org.
Pursuing Anti-Racism is a Jesus thing. It's a disciple of Jesus thing. This week, Betty Joynes and Lori Chewkanes, Members of HOPE's Lead Team and HOPE's Racial Justice Team, continue the conversation with Pastor Rick Court about choosing to be anti-racist and why it is a necessity to how we live our lives as Christian. Betty and Lori share practical ways we can work to end the sin of racism individually, in our families, and in our communities starting today. This episode is part 2 of 2 so make sure to go back and listen to week 1 too!
NOTES & RESOURCES:
Contact HOPE's Racial Justice Team:
Betty - joynesbejo@gmail.com
Lori - mwcllc12@gmail.com
HOPE's Racial Justice Team's Guiding Principle: Truth & justice for all God’s People through the love & example of Jesus.
Quotes and Scripture from the episode:
We don't know what [Jesus] looked like, but if all of the things that we do know about him are true, he was a Palestinian Jewish man living in Galilee in the first century, … So he would have looked like a Palestinian Jewish man of the first century. Cultures tend to portray prominent religious figures to look like the dominant racial identity. - Robert Cargill, University of Iowa
So God created human beings in his own image. In the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. - Genesis 1:27 (NLT)
"A good apology doesn’t include the word “but”.
Take Action: Watch, learn, read and pursue anti-racism. Find resources on our website at meethope.org/endracism.
Thanks for being a part of the HOPE community as we continue conversations about faith and hope! You can learn more at meethope.org or find us on socials @meethopechurch. Join in for worship on Sundays at meethope.live! Have a question? Contact us at podcast@meethope.org.
Speaker 1:
Welcome to the Meet Hope podcast, where we have conversations about faith and hope. Hope is one church made of people living out their faith through two expressions in person and online. We believe a hybrid faith experience can lead to a growing influence in our community and our world for the sake of others. Welcome to Hope.
Speaker 2:
Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of the Meet Hope podcast. My name is Rick and I am here for part two of a really important conversation that we're having, that we're calling a courageous conversation about race, and I'm here again with Lori Chicanes and Betty Joins. Hello, hi, rick. Hello, welcome back, glad that you're here as we kind of do this part two of this conversation, and I want to encourage our listeners if you didn't listen to the previous episode, I want to really want to encourage you to just press stop and go back and listen to that episode, because we're going to follow up that with what we're going to talk about now. We think it's important that you would hear that first episode first, and so I want to do a quick recap, though.
Speaker 2:
In that we talked about Jesus in John chapter 13. He shared this as a commandment. This was, this is the one and only commandment Jesus gives to us. He said a new commandment I give to you that you love one another, even as I have loved you. That you also love one another, and by this, all people will know that you are my disciples if you love, if you have love for one another, and so what we emphasize in the last episode is this conversation is a Jesus thing, and our actions are a Jesus thing because we are disciples of Jesus, and so this is a Jesus thing that, he says, will be known by the world by how we love. So when we love others the way Jesus loves us, that's a demonstration of what it means to be a follower of Jesus, and so, here at Hope, we call that being in the process of conforming to the image of Jesus Christ for the sake of others. So we are called to follow Jesus's example, and so we are seeking to do that.
Speaker 2:
How can we love the way Jesus loves? And so, really, the question we're asking in this podcast is what does conforming to the image of Jesus look like? Concerning racism? And so, as we talk about image, betty Laurie, I wanted to ask what does Jesus look like? If we're supposed to look like Jesus, what does Jesus look like? And I know that doesn't mean literally, but let's still. Let's talk about when people see and describe Jesus. What do they see?
Speaker 4:
Well, for centuries, the most common image of Jesus, at least in Western cultures, has been that of a bearded, fair-skinned man with long, wavy, light brown or blonde hair and often blue eyes.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, let me stop there for a second. So my Sunday school image of Jesus as I was growing up was all we saw in the pictures in the hallways was Jesus was wearing a little white cloak and he was blonde haired blonde haired, like me, I had blonde hair back in the day and blue eyed and a nice trimmed beard Right, and usually a very handsome man. So you're telling me that's not what Jesus looked like.
Speaker 4:
Well, the Bible doesn't describe Jesus physically and all of the evidence we do have indicate he probably looked very different from how he has long been portrayed. The Bible offers few clues about Christ's physical appearance. Most of what we know about Jesus comes from the first four books of the NT the Gospels of Matthew, mark, luke and John. According to the Gospels, jesus was a Jewish man born in Bethlehem and raised in the town of Nazareth in Galilee formerly Palestine, now northern Israel during the first century AD. We do not know what Jesus looked like, but if all of the things we do know about him are true, he was a Palestinian Jewish man living in Galilee in the first century. So he would have looked like a Palestinian Jewish man of the first century. Cultures tend to portray prominent religious figures to look like the dominant racial identity. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
So I think that's really important to clarify.
Speaker 3:
So what we're saying, then, is that when white people were painting pictures of Jesus, they painted him to look like themselves, and actually, last week we went to an art exhibit at the Museum of Art in Philadelphia and it was featuring African-American artists, and so we saw a number of examples of what Jesus looked like to people starting in the 1800s. African-americans in the 1800s all looked like Palestinian men of his time, and then we walked through other galleries where we saw so many pictures painted by white painters of blonde-haired, blue-eyed Medanus and their baby Jesus. Interesting, yeah.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. So when we talk about image and when we talk about in the process of being conformed to the image of Jesus, we're not talking about looking like Jesus physically. Of course we know that. We're talking about things like character. We're talking about our actions and our, even our emotions, and I guess you'd even say, to some degree, our gifts and our talents.
Speaker 2:
That, and when we say that God created human beings in his own image, again, we don't necessarily mean physically looking like God, but we mean that our character and our emotions and our actions are what looks like God. And so when in Genesis, the poet wrote so God created human beings in his own image, in the image of God. He created them, male and female. He created them that God created. All of us, all of humanity, and all of humanity can reflect the character of God and the actions of God and the motion and the emotions of God, those kinds of things. And so this should influence how we see others. Right, that they may not look like us, they may not speak the same language as us and they may not even act like us, but that doesn't mean that they're not made in the image of God, right?
Speaker 3:
And I, you know, I think that he, god, created us out of love as his number one creation, the thing he loved best, and so he created us to be loved and respected and to love and respect others. He created each of us, then, to use our unique gifts for the benefit of others. Yeah, and so when?
Speaker 2:
we talk about the process of conforming to the image of Jesus Christ for the sake of others. That's the for the sake of others that Jesus lived different. He traveled through enemy territory. He even stopped in places that other people wouldn't have typically stopped in. He sent his disciples into town for snacks at one time when he was in Samaria, and I'm sure that was just a challenge for them to go into those places. He even struck up a conversation with a Samaritan woman one time. Again, he was doing things differently, but his character, his actions, his emotions, they all demonstrated what it means to to be love and what it means to love others. So so you know, we've shared a lot in our two episodes and I hope that again, that listeners you've listened to the first one as well but we want to kind of dig deeper into the things. What can we do? What can we who are people who are following Jesus? What can we do to to be anti-racist, like we talked about in the last episode? So what can we do to end the sin of racism?
Speaker 3:
Well, I think there are a number of things. And first, we can be the change that God wants us to be. You know, rick, you preached recently that as God's children, each of us lovingly made in His image, we can eliminate God's nightmare of racism, and we can eliminate that from the dream community that he wants for us.
Speaker 3:
To do that, though, we have to first admit that systemic racism exists, that it's real and that it actually gives advantages to one race and disadvantages other races and colors and ethnicities, so that we end up with one is superior and the other is inferior, and then, like Jesus, we can truly love one another, that extreme kind of agape love that Jesus has for us. We can be open-minded about our differences. Just because people don't look like us or dress or speak like us, we can still look for the similarities, the humanity in each and the good in others. We can let them into our lives, and we can also speak up when we see or hear something racist and engage in a courageous conversation around it, and that can be hard.
Speaker 1:
Yes.
Speaker 3:
But in circumstances. But then saying nothing makes us complicit in that racism. So there are a lot of tips that we have, perhaps for another time or another conversation about how to engage in a courageous conversation, but that's for another time.
Speaker 2:
But when we offend someone by using racist remarks or jokes or descriptions, we should apologize, right? But there's a way to apologize and, betty, I know you want to share that. Share with us what a good apology looks like.
Speaker 4:
Okay, a good apology doesn't include the word, but Focus on the impact on the person you are speaking to, not your intent. So this is a good apology. You might say that was absolutely inappropriate of me. I'm sorry that I did that, or I'm sorry for what I said or did, or I take full responsibility for my actions. I'm committed to treating you with the dignity you deserve.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, we've all said something or done something or failed to do something. Sometimes it's a word that comes out of our mouth that as soon as we heard it, we wanted to call it back, or we stood silently when another person might have been made a joke about a black person or about even an entire race, and then, for some of us, we even have family members who may say inappropriate things that we don't abide by. So, yeah, thanks so much, because having I think that's so important, that that's part of the courageous conversation, right that to say, hey, I wanna apologize for what I've done or what I've said and to own it right, yes, and the focus on the impact of the person you're speaking to, not your intent right, right, yes.
Speaker 4:
And sometimes, because it is difficult, you might ask yourself what will happen to me if I say something, and so then you hold back because you're not sure what that person's reaction might be towards you. But we would ask you to also ask the question what will happen to them if I don't?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and we talked earlier about that. It's like the story of the Good Samaritan right, that the Good Samaritan didn't ask what will happen to me, but he asked what would happen if I don't. What happened to the person if I don't help?
Speaker 4:
right.
Speaker 2:
Exactly, and so you know what. So what's next? What are some things that we can do? All that we've just talked about, what are some things that we could do.
Speaker 3:
Well, I think the first step, the critical step, is commit to self-reflection. Take a look at yourself. It's good for all of us, frankly, to just take a look at ourselves, like what is your story? What biases might you have from your upbringing, from your school or your work experience? You know what fears might you have about others who appear different from you, and be honest with yourself. And if, in fact, you uncover some things that make you question how much you, are you an anti-racist? Are you an ally to black Americans? If you can't say yes, then understand that your own racism, not with fear or not with anger or denial, but be curious about it Because, remember, we can be a racist by our inaction as much as we can be a racist by our action.
Speaker 3:
And then ask yourself, what am I doing now, personally, to end the sin of racism? What am I individually doing? What am I doing within my family To teach my children, to teach family members? One of our colleagues on lead team, after we would have a session, she would go and she would talk to family members. She wanted to share. And so go and share what you're learning and discovering about yourself. You know, then, once you've done that self analysis, you can look beyond yourself and you can look out to the Borg-Ur-Hope community and out to the community at large.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I think there's some evidence in Scripture that that and I do this when I preach I think often, as I'll say, talk about our different worlds, that we can. So let's, let's. How can we focus on our ourselves and then focus on our families, and then how can we expand those circles out so we can have an influence and we can end the sin of racism in our family, and then we can end the sin of racism in our neighborhoods and end the sin of racism in our church, and so so it's not, it just, it just puts, it makes it more personal and then also almost makes it more accessible. Right Now, I'm going to, I'm going to bring God's dream community to my home, right, and then what does that look like now? Because that can then expand, right, yes, right.
Speaker 2:
Yes so thanks for sharing that.
Speaker 4:
Yeah, thanks, and so commit to take action. Okay, see the us and not them. Get involved, speak out, educate yourself, your family and others, and as you look for resources to educate yourself and prepare you to teach others, we can offer suggestions. It can be books, videos, documentaries, movies, podcasts and museums.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that's great and you know we'll be sure to list those. Well, list the links for those, because Ashley share with us that on our website there's a page where you can access all this material as well. So we'll be sure to have all those links up. I know, I just want to encourage one of the. It was a YouTube Ted talk that you all showed. I've seen it a couple times at a couple different events where we've shared this material and just very powerful. What's the name?
Speaker 3:
of it, the lie that invented racism.
Speaker 2:
Yes.
Speaker 3:
And it's John, not quite sure how to pronounce his last name, b? N or B? U, and B? I E W? E? N that one, and if I could just recommend one more, yeah, sure. As you do yourself reflection.
Speaker 4:
There's one that is called the danger of a single story. Thank you, Ben.
Speaker 3:
Yes, thank you, Ben which can help you with that self reflection.
Speaker 2:
Yes, it's a team effort here.
Speaker 4:
Yes, and we've been working on this for quite a long time. We're good partners. Yes, we're good partners.
Speaker 2:
So you have lots of materials, so we'll be sure to list all of that and make those available to others so they can. They can do that because this is about the process of conforming to the image of Jesus Christ, when it'll look like Jesus in the way we interact with others, because our discipleship impacts others, right? It's for the sake of others, so, so it's so important. So, listen, thank you so much. This has been fun. Hope you enjoyed this. I've enjoyed it. I always love interviewing people in these podcasts and if people want to speak with you again, we can put your contact info in the show notes. But also you're here on Sunday mornings.
Speaker 3:
Yes.
Speaker 2:
Right, absolutely, we'll see you. And Betty, you serve in on the lobby team. Yes, on the lobby team, fourth Sunday Fourth Sunday, right, so fourth Sunday, come to.
Speaker 4:
Hope and make sure you come up and say hello.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that's great. Hey everybody, listeners, thank you so much for tuning in and look forward to seeing you again and hearing from you, or you hearing from us again in the next episode. Take care, have a great day.
Speaker 4:
Thank you for having us, bye, bye.
Speaker 1:
Thanks for being a part of the Hope community as we continue our conversations about faith and hope. If you don't already, please join us for worship on Sundays or on demand. You can learn more at meethopeorg or find us on socials at Meet Hope Church.