Struggling to find balance as you care for your children and aging parents? You're not alone. In today's episode Vickie Crews shares her own story of caring for multiple aging parents, what helped her, and where she finds hope in the process.
NOTED & RESOURCES:
Thanks for being a part of the HOPE community as we continue conversations about faith and hope! You can learn more at meethope.org or find us on socials @meethopechurch. Join in for worship on Sundays at meethope.live! Have a question? Contact us at podcast@meethope.org.
Struggling to find balance as you care for your children and aging parents? You're not alone. In today's episode Vickie Crews shares her own story of caring for multiple aging parents, what helped her, and where she finds hope in the process.
NOTED & RESOURCES:
Thanks for being a part of the HOPE community as we continue conversations about faith and hope! You can learn more at meethope.org or find us on socials @meethopechurch. Join in for worship on Sundays at meethope.live! Have a question? Contact us at podcast@meethope.org.
Welcome to the Meet Hope podcast, where we have conversations about faith and hope. Hope is one church made of people living out their faith through two expressions in person and online. We believe a hybrid faith experience can lead to a growing influence in our community and our world for the sake of others. Welcome to Hope.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the Meet Hope podcast. This is Amanda Cavallieri. I'm the director of Tomorrow's Hope Preschool and the Parenting and Marriage Coordinator here at Hope. I'm sitting today with Vicki Cruz. Hi Vicki, hi Amanda, how are you? I'm good, tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 3:Okay, I am Vicki Cruz. I have been married to Scott for 39 years. We have two children. Kelsey is 32. Emily is 25. Kelsey is married to a wonderful man named Matt. They have three children six, five and one and one to be born in April. We're excited about that. I am a registered nurse by trade, okay, and I've worked in the hospital setting for like 14 years and then I worked at home raising children and doing various things. I worked here at the church for about 10 years as the admin and doing all sorts of things and consulting to the preschool.
Speaker 2:That's right. You are a nurse when you were here, that's right?
Speaker 3:Yes, and currently I am the school nurse at Osage here, in Voorhees as a full-time job, and so I'm still working with children and parents and doing all that Love it, and I've attended Hope for over 30 years and yeah, that's a little bit about me.
Speaker 2:That's great. Well, you are here today because we are talking about parenting in the sandwich generation. So for those of our listeners who don't know what that means that means, go ahead and tell us what that means.
Speaker 3:Okay, what that means is my cute little definition is basically you are having children, pretty much 18 or less, living in, currently living in your home full-time, and you are also having to deal with aging parents that they are possibly having ever increasing need.
Speaker 2:Yes, and so I am so excited to talk to you because this is where I live. I am raising an 11-year-old and a 14-year-old, and I also have aging parents and in-laws. My mother specifically has Alzheimer's, and so there's all sorts of dynamics going on. Yes, there is, because I feel like I'm parenting on both ends yes you are, and there's a lot of challenges, so can you.
Speaker 3:You lived through this too. I did. I my background in this. I am probably an expert. We had all four parents living when we were married and then. Well, let's go very quickly. When my father-in-law died, Kelsey was two, and when my mother died, Kelsey was seven.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 3:Emily wasn't here yet. We adopted her two months after my mother died, and when Scott's mom died, I had a high schooler but, she was our issue and our biggest issue. And then, when my dad died, emily was in high school and Kelsey was married by that time. Okay, but I always had a child under 18 with parents needing increasing care, sure.
Speaker 2:And why is this so important that we talk about?
Speaker 3:It's important because it puts a huge stress on you. It is not. In years past this wasn't as much of an issue because people had children younger, so then by the time the parent was aging, usually the child was a young adult and also we had a lot like in the early part of the 20th century. There was it was not unusual to have multi-generational households.
Speaker 2:So talk to me personally and to those of us who are living in the situation. I am like I said, I'm working full time. I'm raising too very busy, even though they're in the teen years. I'm working and then, I'm running and then you know, husband volunteering all that stuff and helping my parents navigate through their own health challenges too. How do I set some healthy boundaries in that for myself so that I don't burn out? Yeah?
Speaker 3:that's an excellent question. Most people I know don't set boundaries and then and they certainly don't set boundaries with their parents. So when this aging thing happens, it doesn't get any better unless the person who's doing the help the caregiver sets some boundaries. It's so hard to talk about individual boundaries because it depends on everybody's individual situation. Like you would handle a boundary with a toxic parent, let's say, way differently than you would handle a boundary with a parent who is Alzheimer's, because even though the situation might look similar, it's a different situation.
Speaker 3:What I like to say is we have to set our own personal boundaries and your personal boundaries include support. You have to have support. It's not a luxury and you cannot do this by yourself. You have to have support. I kind of like to think of it in concentric circles. If you are married or have a partner that you live with, that is your first inner circle, that is your first support would be that you and you're living together, you're raising children together, you're dealing with parents together, so you really need to at least attempt to be on the same page as your spouse. I know it doesn't always work, which is why we have outer circles. The next circle, because we're talking about aging parents is siblings.
Speaker 1:If you have them again I know people don't have siblings.
Speaker 3:You have to elicit support from your siblings. I know I was from a sibling standpoint. In all four of mine I was the caregiver, I'm the nurse, I'm the oldest all of these things, not inappropriately really, but you think you can't. Scott's brother lived in Dallas when his mother was else. So you think you can't do things you can, and I have a really actually a simple example my grandmother lived till 98 independently.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 3:Okay, and she actually did a pretty good job, but she did stop driving at 93 because of health concerns. So I had an uncle that lived here in New Jersey and then I had an uncle that we don't know where. He lived all the time but he was not here and so obviously the bulk of support fell on the one uncle. My mother was deceased at the time, so my one uncle had to do all those things for her. But what the other uncle did that was away. He called her every single night at seven o'clock.
Speaker 3:Now first of all, that was support for my grandmother and she did at the time, I think had a landline and a cell phone so he would call the landline. Typically she didn't answer. He called the cell phone so she didn't have to be at home necessarily, but it was basically a check-in. So if she so she wasn't lying on the floor more than 24 hours, if my other uncle just didn't have to be there that day that's helpful. You kind of have to think around the box, so you need that concentric circle of your siblings.
Speaker 2:So who comes to the next circle? The?
Speaker 3:next circle is your friends, your support group.
Speaker 3:If you have a support group, some small group of church or a small group of church or your church family or your greater circle that does include real intimate friends. So you can't live without those. You cannot. You cannot because you need to. You're gonna need to vent to somebody and the spouse may not always be the best person, even if you're on board. Scott and I were generally on board with dealing with his mother, but there were some things that sometimes I was just frustrated and frankly, he was having a hard time because of boundaries and dysfunction and all that.
Speaker 3:All this brings all that up. I needed my girlfriends to just go. Oh, I can't do this today. I'm so angry or I'm so upset or I'm just so tired. You need that ring and they're invaluable. Even my girlfriends especially the ones that I've had for the last 15 years and so I've had two deaths in that time frame they're great funeral givers. I didn't have to do a thing after all this stress, after all this pain, after all that, and they lived through it with me. They did that. I mean, I'm talking about the after party and I didn't have to worry about a thing. They were just wonderful. So you need that level of support. Your outer ring is either a mentor or a professional counselor, and I think you need it, unless you're talking about dealing with something that's maybe less than six months. Somebody gets a horrible diagnosis and you just live that for six months.
Speaker 3:But, you kind of know there's a time frame on it, Most of the time like what you're talking about for your situation.
Speaker 2:There's not a time frame I had no idea.
Speaker 3:I mean, I could tell you the time frame, especially my mother-in-law, was the one that we were totally point on and she had nobody else to help her, and it was four years and we had no idea, even when she died. She died quickly, in a week, so we didn't even then. It wasn't like we were doing a death watch. You know what I mean. You have no idea and you really need somebody, because sometimes your friends they're trying to help you, they're trying to get care, and that's totally appropriate.
Speaker 3:You need somebody sometimes a professional to tell you oh, you're not doing the right thing there, and this is where we talked about boundaries, Right? So they're probably going to be the ones to tell you oh, no, you need to put a boundary there. Or maybe you put a boundary in that really isn't working anymore and you need to figure that out you need somebody that's totally out of the situation.
Speaker 3:Okay, that can give in, it can be a mentor. It doesn't absolutely are a pastor, it doesn't have to be a professional counselor, but I highly recommend that in this season of life you just need that extra support.
Speaker 2:That's really good. I want to go back to that first concentric circle, to our spouses, for those of us who have them, and let's throw out a scenario. Let's say it's the husband's parents who are needing to care. And what does that do to the other spouse? Because now we have, you know, the husband is now having to care for his parents and the wife and the kids and the job and the wife can become easily resentful. So you know, how do we?
Speaker 3:navigate through that. It's called communication and that's through all of this. People cannot read your mind. They do not know what you need, even your spouse, and that's a whole thing. On a parent. On marriage, we often do come into marriage thinking that our spouses just know how to read our minds. They don't, especially if you're a woman. Your husband can't.
Speaker 1:Absolutely no idea, no idea.
Speaker 3:Women have a little more intuition sometimes, but even we, we do not. We cannot read our spouse's mind, and we need to communicate, communicate, communicate, communicate. This is what's happening, especially if you're that stretched, you really need a plan, and whoever does the planning better? You need to have weekly meetings. Hey, this is what's going on with this child and this is what's going on with this child and your mother needs to go to the doctor on this day. And then here's our work schedule, even if that's not typically what you do in a, in a, in a second of life, and you don't have to do it. That structure probably needs to be a little more structured during this, this season of life and you're you, you're not going to be in any. Even you have to realize that you may do a lot of divide and conquer where you might not normally do that under a normal season of life.
Speaker 3:Right, you know you both want to go to the soccer game and you both want to do this or you both want to do that. We always do divide and conquer anyway children go in different places, but you, you're gonna need to do that in this right time frame and if you're overwhelmed or tired, you need to say that and you might need to have some really hard conversations that you don't want to have right, because otherwise that it can become a very resentful scenario.
Speaker 2:It can be, it can be so unhappy.
Speaker 3:Yes, it can be toxic and you, you know, you might have to make some, some sacrifices. That's what we do, is adults. Right is make sacrifices, and and then that's even problematic if if the child of whoever pair is, you know, felt like the parent didn't make sacrifices. Right, which again we go to the counselors. Right, we all need that to the counselor circle.
Speaker 3:I would say you really have to do hard communication and hard-looking at your situations. What can you get rid of, mmm? In that Time frame like like what, what can you jettison? You may not want to jettison. Okay, I'll give you a quick example of what we did, because Scott's mother, when we were doing this and she was living on her own and we were especially especially after we had to take the car away, so she literally is on her own yes, and not navigating where she was living. Very well right.
Speaker 3:So we were groceries, you know all of that making sure she's doing her laundry. You're visiting her several times a week, doctors appointments, all that and we got very overwhelmed. I was working here at the church, I was working full-time. I had a child in the home doing all the things the child needs to do child in college at that time, Right far away, but it's still trying to navigate.
Speaker 3:She would call meltdown. You know about right things. She still needed support. One of the things and this is just a very practical thing we did in our case we were fortunate my mother-in-law had financial resources to take care of her, so that was not a worry.
Speaker 3:Okay, it is for a lot of people yes, but for us it was not and Scott was in charge of the money. Thankfully that that you know again. There's so much we could talk about that I know I charge of the money. So, but because she would, when we would get her caregivers, she would shut the door in their face.
Speaker 2:Oh, my mom.
Speaker 3:So we that didn't work, so what we then decided to do again, you really have to sometimes think outside of the box what we decided to do is kind of pay ourselves, but not just to pay ourselves for our bank account. I hired housekeeper from my home Right and Scott hired a lawn service and he loves to do the lawn Because that freed up time right for us to be able to care for her right. It's just so. You kind of have to think outside the box like what.
Speaker 2:What can other people do? In this season to take something off Me, and that's a great way to to prioritize our energy. Yes our time and our attention.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's really good, and it isn't, you know, and sometimes you may have to do a hard thing like yeah, honey, I'm so sorry, my little 12 year old you can't go to five soccer camps this summer, right, you just can't. Right doesn't mean you don't go Any, but right, you know. And I'm not saying we always cut with the kids, but we have to look at it ourselves, look at the whole picture really hope.
Speaker 3:picture what's gonna be best for the family this is part of and we are all put, even our kids, while I'll talk about yeah. Yeah, let's talk about let's talk about that, yeah. Yeah well, if you notice when I we did the concentric circles, yes, your children are not there.
Speaker 3:Why aren't they there? They are not there because your children Are not emotionally equipped To deal with all the emotion that this happens now. This is a very tricky thing because I'm a huge believer in truth, right, so we do not. If Graham, let's say grandma, is dying, like then there's a sort of ish time frame and we know, because she has cancer or whatever it is right. We do not keep that from our children.
Speaker 1:I mean if they're too.
Speaker 3:They're not gonna understand, right. But if they're in the age of understanding, and particularly if they know Grandma and they're close to grandma, yes, explain it as best you can. You don't keep that from them, right, and you might not even and you can certainly talk about emotions, that you are sad or this is all, but You're the parent and so you, that's your job, to help them through this. It is not their job to help you through this.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:It's the concentric circles of adults.
Speaker 3:Yes, that are in your life and I would even expand this. Certainly goes up to our 18 year olds, right, I would expand it through college because, even though you know we can sometimes laugh at our Students in college because they think their life is so hard for them, it is for them, it is. It's not their burden To do that. And even our adult children who, yes, if, if something's happening in your adult children, call, they may ask you how you are. You can be honest with them, with your adult children, but to me they're not my go-to, like I'm not calling them to to to debrief my bad day, right, they're not my choice to call, right, they call and ask me my adult children, right, and that also doesn't mean we don't have bad days. We may come home I know I did and Just just have a total meltdown, mm-hmm, in front of your child. They can handle that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there have been times where I've gotten off the phone or left my parents house and started crying and the kids are with me and you know, it's just, it's real and it's just me saying this is hard for mom.
Speaker 3:Yes and I think that's. That's part of truth, mm-hmm. Then, in the debriefing of why it's hard for mom, you don't go to your kids, right? You go to.
Speaker 2:Yes your circles because they're gonna see us go through it. I don't want to hide it and it's a piece of our story, but they can't be my source of comfort in it either.
Speaker 3:No, because it's not their turn now, because when you, when you project this further, they are watching you. First of all, they're watching how you handle this and and your spouse. But it's not their turn, because their turn is gonna come in 20 or 30 years, right, when maybe it is their job to take care of your emotional needs because you're in that state of needing that care, right. It's not their turn when we are in our prime.
Speaker 2:Let's say yeah, yeah that this is so good. I think I could talk about this all day. Absolutely because it is a hard topic but so important to talk about because Lots of us are living in this stage right now, as there are so many baby boomers as part of our population. There are many, many people, many friends I have and people I talk to that are living through this and so it's important to talk about.
Speaker 2:Just to circle back, this is the meet hope podcast and we like to talk about when there is hope and sometimes, in this topic, it's hard to see that hope because what we said, sometimes we don't know how long this is gonna last. This could be years and years, and years and years. Right, and then if I have there's four aging parents, you know, multiply I did for aging parents.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you did for aging parents, so where can we find hope?
Speaker 2:in this you can find hope in.
Speaker 3:In the day to day. First of all, you need to do some self-care. Hmm, quite talk about that. While you do need to make sacrifices, because we're adults, we need to find the self-care and that might be, you know, going on a retreat with your girlfriends and having your sibling come and and. But if it's that cares, that dire, you know to do that. We need to, we need to look at that.
Speaker 3:So you see the hope in the day to day. You see the hope. You need to have time. Maybe just go take a walk and look at the flowers, or whatever's good for you. Like you know, we all have our different things right, but. But the hope to me is in the future, and this is what I tell people all the time. We just talked about how our children are watching us do this, and they may very well be in a point where they have to do it for us and my friends who are, in all, in this position or have been in this position.
Speaker 3:We talk about all the time that, while we can't, I've had to think about the choices that I wish my parents would have all made. That would have been healthier, that would have made this time easier on us, and then I've had to work through it and remember the counselor circle. Yeah, work through it and and then mourn it, you know that they didn't, but they didn't.
Speaker 3:I can't control that. I can control the choices that they made. I can control, first of all, the way I responded to it and but second of all I can control the choices I make in the future Right for my own children. So so, being aware, before we started the podcast, we were talking about a book called being mortal by a tool.
Speaker 3:One day, if you are in this, if you're out there listening to my voice, and you are in this or approaching this situation, please pick up that book and maybe actually can put that book in the show notes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, being being mortal, and it just gives you a whole List of things that you can anticipate and talk about, and then again, it may be too late for your current situation, but you can then put it in your own System, like I said. So. So my parents none of my parents, I think ever well, my dad thought he was gonna die his whole life and he looked 40 more years and then, but really, he didn't. You know, there were no plans, there were no thoughts, there were no. Hey, this is how I'm gonna end this. Nobody wants to talk about this, nobody wants to talk about it. But you know what I? I can talk about it, and to the point where my children watched me go through this.
Speaker 3:Well, kelsey watched all four times now, emily watched two times, and Kelsey and her husband have already had the conversation mom, you and dad can come live with us.
Speaker 3:I may or may not happen right, but I think that's the point that I think I'm gonna be able to talk about this. I may or may not happen right, but, um, they're already talking about it because we open the door to be able to do that. I know, like, where I'm sitting in my early 60s. Should Scott and I change homes. I need to be looking for a home that's got a bedroom and a shower facility on the first floor. Then maybe I can age, maybe I can even die in that home, and my grandmother did, at 98 years old, things like that. We can do better for the future and the hope is too, you will get through this. If you are working through this, the vast majority of you the parent will die at some point, because that's what we're talking about.
Speaker 3:This is end of life thing and you will be able to go on and then perhaps help other people. That's one of the reasons I'm doing this podcast. I still want to help other people to be able to get through this whole, to get through this not fractured, because so many people get through this fractured and then it just goes down, it just generationally. Then the next thing and then my kids are going to want to take care of me or my husband or I don't want that. I want to try to go forward as whole as possible. So to me that's the hope. There's hope that we can change our own behavior to make it better for the next generation.
Speaker 2:That is so good. So thank you for your time and your wisdom on this topic and I know we talk a lot outside of this, so you have so much to say and so much to offer. So thank you for your expertise today, vicki, and just so grateful for that and for all of our listeners at the Meet Hope podcast. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Thanks for being a part of the Hope community as we continue our conversations about faith and hope. If you don't already, please join us for worship on Sundays or on demand. You can learn more at meethopeorg or find us on socials at Meet Hope Church.