Recently, HOPE hosted Parenting in 2024 - a series of workshops for parents with kids of all ages. We’re excited to share some of the content from those workshops here on the podcast too! On today’s episode, Marriage & Parenting Coordinator, Amanda Cavaliere, talks with Licensed Professional Counselor, Gabrielle Morreale, about how to foster a healthy self image in our kids. This is a great episode to pass on to a friend who is raising kids too!
NOTES & RESOURCES:
Thanks for being a part of the HOPE community as we continue conversations about faith and hope! You can learn more at meethope.org or find us on socials @meethopechurch. Join in for worship on Sundays at meethope.live! Have a question? Contact us at podcast@meethope.org.
Recently, HOPE hosted Parenting in 2024 - a series of workshops for parents with kids of all ages. We’re excited to share some of the content from those workshops here on the podcast too! On today’s episode, Marriage & Parenting Coordinator, Amanda Cavaliere, talks with Licensed Professional Counselor, Gabrielle Morreale, about how to foster a healthy self image in our kids. This is a great episode to pass on to a friend who is raising kids too!
NOTES & RESOURCES:
Thanks for being a part of the HOPE community as we continue conversations about faith and hope! You can learn more at meethope.org or find us on socials @meethopechurch. Join in for worship on Sundays at meethope.live! Have a question? Contact us at podcast@meethope.org.
Welcome to the Meet Hope podcast, where we have conversations about faith and hope. Hope is one church made of people living out their faith through two expressions in person and online. We believe a hybrid faith experience can lead to a growing influence in our community and our world for the sake of others. Welcome to Hope.
Speaker 2:Hi and welcome to the Meet Hope podcast. This is Amanda Cavallieri. I am the Tomorrow's Hope Preschool Director and the coordinator for Parenting and Family Ministries here at Hope Church. I am so excited today to be sitting down with Gabrielle Moriali to talk about some fun, exciting topics that she is a specialist in. Hi, gabby, hi, thank you for having me. Absolutely. It's not your first time. You were with us on episode 50 back at the holidays talking about chaos and hope and grace and support, so we're so glad that you're back. Thank you for having me again, absolutely. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background?
Speaker 3:Sure. So, as Amanda said, I'm Gabby. I am the owner and clinical director of Recovered and Restored Eating Disorder Therapy Center. I'm a licensed professional counselor in Pennsylvania, new Jersey, delaware, south Carolina and Florida. I have been in the field over 11 years, specializing in eating disorder and body image. I am truly passionate about what I do, and some fun facts about me is that Andrew Barber, the worship leader at Hope, is my husband, and we have a beautiful daughter named Cassie Joy and a new, kim Kaya.
Speaker 2:So cute and, yeah, you are a new parent. I am God bless. God bless, that's right. You are a new parent and this is part of some parenting podcast that we're going to be doing as a spin-off from our parenting in 2024 workshop. So I love that you're bringing in that professional background with being a mom and talking about such an important topic. That is hard and challenging for us as parents and our kids as well. So we're going to be talking today about self-image, so can you go ahead and define what self-image is?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so really simply put, body image or self-image is just often the way that we perceive ourselves and our bodies. That's it. It's that simple. Now, it is a multifaceted concept, right Like it's not just one thing that affects body image. Our family relationships affect body image, society affects how we see our body, our own internal dialogue affects how we see our body, the culture, things like that. But very simply put, it is how we see ourselves.
Speaker 2:Gotcha, and I think a lot of us struggle with how we see ourselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're related to.
Speaker 3:It's so tender.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I will tell you, this is hard as a mom, because I struggle with this myself and now I'm raising a preteen daughter and a teenage son who are already at an age where it's such a challenge. But then they're getting infiltrated by so many things of the culture and what Totally Everything is saying to them about their own self-image that this is very challenging. So it's such an important topic. What kind of statistics do you have on this?
Speaker 3:Well, I have many, I will say I'm going to throw out some statistics I found. You may find different ones when you search the internet, because I think it's a really vast and broad topic. So by first grade, it is reported that 22% of girls have reported going on a diet. So first grade is like six years old, first grade six or seven, maybe five if they're advanced, but yeah, like six or seven. But we know that, statistically speaking, of anyone who goes on a diet, about 25% of them will develop an eating disorder. So that's really Dangerous.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's really dangerous, so scary.
Speaker 3:Then as we go up through, you know, early adolescence, it says that by high school, 63% of girls and I believe about 20% of boys have reported dieting. And then, as we get into adulthood, 79% of women and 29% or 28% of men also have struggled with body image related issues. So it's clearly pervasive and problematic and I'm really glad we're talking about it.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean 79% of women. That's almost all of us. That's a lot.
Speaker 3:That's almost all of us.
Speaker 2:That's almost all of us, yeah, yeah. So, absolutely, this is affecting everybody, which is why it's so important and so hard to do all at the same time. So I'm so glad that you are here to talk with us today and explore this topic. So, for us, as parents, talk to me about some things that we can be doing or saying, or even more, not doing, not saying to help our children in this area.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I think the first thing we can do which I fully acknowledge, this is easier said than done is make peace with our own body.
Speaker 2:Okay, so how do we?
Speaker 3:do that, Gabby.
Speaker 3:How do we do that? Right? A lot of work, a lot of time. And I don't mean like work in the sense of like going out to work, I mean like internal work, the hard stuff, the sensitive things you know, and looking into the narratives that we have around our bodies and why we have these narratives and where they come from and how we may or may not want to change them. Because if we are saying negative things about ourselves and then someone says to, let's say, our 10-year-old, you look just like your mom, they just interpreted oh, I look like mom. Well, mom thinks she's in certain negative comment here. Right, and they just took that on.
Speaker 3:Where, if you're a mom who's even saying neutral things, which I will talk about body neutrality and we'll get into all of that, that is definitely something I recommend. Neutral things like my body is my body or you know what, not even focusing on bodies, which I'll totally get to, that really helps them to just say I look like mom, cool or whatever you know, and just keeping it moving. One of the biggest predictors of positive self-image in adolescence is having a parent who has positive self-image, gotcha. So I think, first doing the work, so taking the focus off of their bodies. Why are we so body obsessed, right Like even having a young child, people comment on her body. Now, it's innocent and sweet because she's little, but there are also times where I'm like could you just say like that she's so like Smyly, because she is overly Smyly.
Speaker 2:Right, well, she's. If you've met Cassie Joy, if she's her mom, Smyly yes. So what a cute bow.
Speaker 3:My child is always wearing a bow. If you feel like you want to make it appearance focused, right Like, let's just take it off their appearance as part of like a way to encourage them. Yes, you can call your daughter lovely or your son handsome. There is nothing wrong with that. I will openly admit I call my daughter beautiful. She has no idea what that means, so I get a pass, yes, but that is okay.
Speaker 3:But let's not base their identity in those things. Like let's help them find their strengths right. Like who are they outside of their let's say, five foot, two frame? Right. Like, who are they? Are they athletic, are they creative, are they kind? Right, like let's build on their strengths. Let's not glorify or kind of put too much value on what their physical appearance looks like, does that make sense?
Speaker 2:It does, but you know why it's so hard. Like so, we go see family and they see the kids and the first thing is, wow, you've gotten so big, or you know, because it takes time to get to know that person inside, right, totally. To be able to say, hey, tell me about soccer. I heard you're a great soccer player. That is harder to do than to say, wow, your hair got long or why, you know, your sister still hasn't grown much. You know, like that.
Speaker 2:But it takes so much time and intentionality to know the person, versus just looking at them and commenting right away and having that pressure to say something right, Right, and that's the easiest thing to say is oh, you cut your hair, you know that shirt's looking a little small or you know, whatever it might be Right.
Speaker 3:Right, and I always say to people if you feel like your default is appearance based, let's comment on like, for example, the bow, or like an article of clothing, sure, like. If that's your default, I get it. It does take intentionality. That's such a good word and thoughtfulness, but we're tired, we're busy. It's oftentimes not intentional that we are making these body comments Right. Let's just take it off the physical aspects of the body and let's say love your blouse. What cool shoes, right? Keep it moving, Keep it simple.
Speaker 1:It's great If we need to be kind of on a more surface level, yes.
Speaker 3:And then, if and when we can go deeper, especially as parents, because we have that luxury. It is a luxury to have children, it is a luxury to get to watch them grow, it is a blessing, right? So, if we are able to invest in our children and get to know who they are because they're mostly really cool people, right, yes, let's build up those different parts of their identity and embrace them unconditionally, regardless of appearance. Yes.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 3:That is so helpful and some things I would definitely say not to do. Yes, More importantly, more importantly what not?
Speaker 3:to do so. We've kind of said let's not comment on, like, physical appearance and even more, let's not comment on shape and width. Right, if let's say someone's body has changed? Because you know, bodies change when a female goes for puberty, it is expected that they will gain 32, 40 pounds. Now are they also growing in height at this time? Right, typically to match that, yes, but we don't need to comment if maybe that part hasn't caught up yet. Right, and that's okay. So we don't need to comment on their body size, whether they're small, medium or large, their body is their body. But there is no room for that. So I would say don't talk about weight, don't talk about body size or shape, unless it is just very neutrally. Which body neutrality I'll briefly talk about and I do talk about this in my workshop that I guess they got to be a part of.
Speaker 3:Yes, body neutrality is just a way to kind of look at our bodies for what they do, right, and respect them for the functionality, even when we may not love how it appears. We're not always gonna love our bodies, our kid. That's an unrealistic expectation for kids to always love their bodies or for people to always love their bodies. We live in diet culture. We live in wellness culture. We live in celebrity culture, right, like. The unrealistic expectations are there and they're everywhere. So, like right, are we gonna have bad body image days? Yes, but if we can then take it back to a place of neutrality and look at function, right?
Speaker 2:Right, so give me an example of that sure.
Speaker 3:So Body neutrality would just be like my body is my body and I may not love my body today, but I can respect my body because it keeps me alive. Gotcha, very simply put or like with little kids you can go through it of like I like my arms because they can hug mommy. For older kids, I like my arms because they can help me drive right. Or my arms are my arms. If we're not gonna like them, that's fine. Little kids, you can get that. You can show like I like them for a little bit, right, but when they're older they're gonna like no, I don't like my arms, okay, fine, my arms are my arms. They help me drive and I can go hang out with my friends Great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great. And something like that and you know, Trying to say things like we say in the preschool all the time. You know God. God made you just the way you are and yet God made those hands for building and creating and those kinds of things. Would that be an example? Absolutely.
Speaker 3:That's a great example. Yes, and I Recently did a YouTube video with our dietician and we talked about, in Genesis 1, 27, god says that we are very Good. Right, so, remembering that he made the Sun, the moon, the stars and the sky. He made the birds of the air and the beast of the sea. You know, he did all the things and they were good. Mm-hmm, I would say they were marvelous, but yes, you know he's humble. He said they were good, but when it came to us, he said we were very good, and God is also intentional.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love that. Yeah, part of, I think, why it's hard for us and our kids is this Social media, the technology, the different feeds that we are getting, and that's playing into a lot of these negative Thoughts, I would think, self-esteem, and so what do you see on that and what are your thoughts?
Speaker 3:Yes, I mean, there have been countless reports of how social media impacts adolescent mental health, as well as adolescent body image, in a negative way. For short, that is absolutely researched and, sadly, very much reported. But let's accept that social media isn't going anywhere. Mm-hmm, it's not. And I will say I love to tell people social media can be used for the powers of good, it can, but how do we do that? So, in this situation, what I typically would try to recommend is first, like, let's have Conversations about social media with our kids, and not ones that are just, oh, you are on tiktok for seven hours today. Great, they know that, right, right, like they know what they're doing.
Speaker 3:That's not helpful. Yeah right, like OK, then they're really going to want to keep talking to you. No, let's have conversations. What accounts are you following? Tell me about them, share accounts with them that you like and you think may relate to them or they might be into. Because, again, we're taking the time to get to know our kids, so having conversations around what they're following, encouraging them to follow diverse accounts. When we see different bodies not all that look the same our brain is able to then interpret that all bodies are good.
Speaker 2:That's great.
Speaker 3:Yeah, when we just keep seeing people that look like us or what we think the ideal is, we're going to be chasing that ideal or we're going to be chasing what we think we need to look like or people who look like us. But diversity is beautiful. So the more that we can kind of diversify our feeds and have different accounts on not just body diversity but all different topics, again, we can use it for the power of goods and it doesn't have to be this scary place that I acknowledge it can be, but it doesn't have to be Sure. I would also say let's talk about filters. We know they're all using the filters. It's OK, I don't use filters sometimes, it's fine. But let's talk about it.
Speaker 3:If they're watching something and you can visually observe like, oh, I think that person's using the bunny filter, that's so funny, right? Just call it out. Let's just talk about filters. What do you think about filters? Have you ever used a filter? What's your favorite one? Sometimes they are truly innocent and silly, but sometimes they are problematic and give unrealistic beauty expectations and we just need to keep talking about it instead of kind of like shaming people, like I think, sometimes, understandably, parents can get frustrated, especially with like the tweens and teens with their heads.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get it Just a little bit Gabby.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just a little bit. I totally get it, and this is something I hear all the time from clients and parents of like they're always on their phone OK, fair, and we can talk about healthy boundaries with that in a minute. But like, let's talk about what they're seeing on their phone, so, for example, the Kardashians, instead of let's shaming them. And oh, I can't believe Kim does this. What do you like about Kim? Do you think that's something that's real Right? And it might be, it could be she's very involved in social justice. And if they reply with like, oh, she helps prisoners get out of prison, cool, what a great conversation to have with your teenager. Or if they reply like, oh, she makes these fun filters, ok, what's your favorite one? Oh, that's fine. Ok, let's just make sure we know that's not real Right and just keeping it light, like it doesn't have to be super deep, because then they're not going to want to keep talking to you.
Speaker 2:No, that will shut the conversation down faster than anything else it doesn't have to be not going to talk to you.
Speaker 3:So keeping it light, keeping it fun as much as possible, acknowledging that there are some parenting things that need to happen, and this is where the boundaries come in. And I would say, if you want your kid to have boundaries with social media, you need to have boundaries with social media.
Speaker 2:It's just like if we want them to have healthy self-esteem, it has to start with us right? We're modeling all of it for them.
Speaker 3:All of it, all the time they are sponges, even when they are in adolescence and young adulthood. We are still their person, hopefully, and if we are, they are modeling everything we do.
Speaker 2:Yes, and that's the challenge of parenting right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh yeah, Definitely. I mean I think I'm still in the easier phase in that end. She can't walk yet, she can't talk yet. So I can get away with a few things, but I'm sure in a few years I'm going to need to watch it. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, because they see it all, they see it all, they do yeah, the good, the bad, and all the in between, all the in between, all the in between. Oh, that's nice. So these are all typical, age-appropriate growing up things. What are some signs that maybe something more is going on or there is a bigger issue that we should be concerned about? And what are some less typical things we might see?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I think the first thing would be if you see a change in their eating habits that I'm not talking about. Oh, they only eat half their eggs one day out of the week. Ok, we all have different hungers and fullness cues, our bodies have different needs at different times, but let's say consistently, all of a sudden, they don't like eggs and they're not eating x, y or z in addition to that. Ok, I've got to say hey, I noticed you used to really like this. What's going on? They might just be like I don't like it anymore, ok, do you then continue to see them restricting more and more or doing behaviors like hiding food or eating food very fast, physically like a very so quick change in habits and behaviors around food that maybe was once relatively air quote normal or something that you felt was healthy for your child? So if you see a quick change and they can't really explain it when they explain it, you kind of feel like they're like blowing you off. And I would say again don't be overly critical, be curious, like what's going on? When we get critical with our kids again, they're just gonna shut down. That's dangerous when it comes to this. Also, if you see a change in their mood and their behavior and they're tending to withdraw a lot of times.
Speaker 3:Eating disorders and disordered eating loves to exist in isolation. So say that you have an introverted child but they have a couple of friends and you really see them withdrawing from those friends, withdrawing from things that they like again, have a curious, compassionately curious disorder. I like to use conversation Also if let's say that they are changing their habits around sports or exercise. So say that they were a soccer player and they had practiced five nights a week and they would just go to practice and then once in a while, maybe on the weekends, kick the ball around. Great, all of a sudden they're doing three a days and you're like whoa, what just happened? Or on the flip side, they're not exercising at all, they don't wanna go to soccer, they don't wanna do their sport or their passion. And a change in mood is also like a big one, because when we don't eat we're like super cranky, understandably right.
Speaker 3:Yes yes, I know they're already moody, but a drastic change in mood Again. I think a lot of times there are things that we try to be like. Is this adolescence, is this young adulthood, right? Yes, and if you have your mom or dad gut instinct like something more is going on here, I would encourage you to look into it Also a change in their body. So eating disorders and disordered eating is not about size. I know we all picture this white, thin female who's just emaciated when we think of eating disorders. That's actually not true. Only 6% of people with eating disorders will actually be underweight.
Speaker 3:So if you're just seeing little changes, but that is alarming to you because you know your kid. Talk to the pediatrician, talk to your kiddo. It never hurts. An ounce of prevention or early intervention goes such a long way when it comes to the topic.
Speaker 2:That's so helpful by the side and. I love to be curious, like I'm trying to use that more with my own kids. Help me understand. This is what I'm saying now. Help me understand, yes, yes, versus the critical questioning, and that does get them talking.
Speaker 3:How many understand. I'll give you an example yes, yes, yes, ok. So there were six packs of chocolate in the fridge. Why are they gone, right? Oh my gosh, did you like that chocolate? Yeah, I did, it was good. Okay, maybe we should have something with the chocolate. Leave it at that. They can have all six bags that they really want them. Now, let's be honest, if they're eating six bags of chocolate, they probably didn't eat lunch or dinner. So we just want to make sure we're having, like all the foods right, right, their chocolate. So, just kind of being like did you like that? Really, keeping it light and conversational versus accusatory.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. I had this conversation with my son yesterday. He went out with some friends and I gave him 20 bucks for pizza, which I thought would be enough. So I go to pick him up and he comes out and he's like I need more money, I'm like you need more money. He said I'm like I gave you $20 and he's like anymore. So I give him another 10. He comes out and I said so what did you have? I'm so help me understand how $20 wasn't enough for pizza. And he said well, I bought fries for the whole table and then we got dessert and then we got drinks, you know. But but it could have easily gone the other way.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:How much did you eat that? You need more than $20, right, right.
Speaker 3:Two different conversations. He was curious and he just told you. He said I bought some fries, I got some drinks, all right, okay, I had the lunch for the whole table. I didn't like it at all. He is the mayor, so like it's understandable, the behaviors are understandable.
Speaker 2:Oh, but just to be that, that curiosity versus the criticism is huge, totally so, so helpful, gabby. So many things what would you say for the parents listening are some of the biggest takeaways for us to remember in this department of the self-esteem and self-image.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I think it's really hard being a parent number one. So just know that like you're not alone, you're not alone at all and that you know God is with you, your community is with you, your partner if you're lucky enough to have a partner is with you, so like you don't have to do this alone. It's important that if you are struggling, you are taking care of you, right, because being a mom, being a parent, it is really challenging.
Speaker 3:So, whether it's body image stuff or just mental health stuff in general, like, take care of yourself, because if you're good, like then your kids are going to be good or you're going to be able to show up for them in such a beautiful way that you become this safe space for them. Because you are taking care of you. That's great, and so I would say definitely that. And then also just remembering that like there is hope and you can have peace with food in your body. Like a lot of times when I have these conversations, people will be like, well, that's really nice, but this feels really elusive, fair right, like I do this all day long, I have a head start, I totally get that, but like there are people that do have peace with food in your body, and you are deserving and worthy of that too, and it will only benefit your family.
Speaker 2:That's so great. Thank you so much for sharing this with us and just being a good sounding board, and I know that you are reachable in lots of ways for people who want more help with this. But thank you for being here and for our listeners today. Any thoughts or questions or more info, you can reach out to podcast at meet hopeorg or Gabby Anytime.
Speaker 3:And you have a website too, right? Yes, yes, recovered and restored therapycom, or on Instagram at Gabrielle LPC or at recover to restored. We can't do therapy through Instagram, but I'm always happy to chat about this and connect you with myself or a resource if we can help.
Speaker 2:That is so wonderful. Thank you again, gabby, and it's always fun chatting with you.
Speaker 1:Thanks for being a part of the Hope community as we continue our conversations about faith and hope. If you don't already, please join us for worship on Sundays or on demand. You can learn more at meet hopeorg or find us on socials at meet hope church.