50: Navigating the Holiday Chaos: Finding Hope, Grace and Support Amidst Seasonal Struggles
Nov 20, 2023
Ever find yourself torn between the blissful cheer of holiday decorations and melodies, and the creeping stress of high expectations and obligations? You're not alone. This week, Pastor Heather Mandala and Licensed Professional Counselor Gabby Morreale, explore these conflicting emotions many of us face during this festive season. We’re here to assure you that it's perfectly okay to admit that holidays can be challenging and to help you navigate this journey with glimmers of hope and grace.
Thanks for being a part of the HOPE community as we continue conversations about faith and hope! You can learn more at meethope.org or find us on socials @meethopechurch. Join in for worship on Sundays at meethope.live! Have a question? Contact us at podcast@meethope.org.
Ever find yourself torn between the blissful cheer of holiday decorations and melodies, and the creeping stress of high expectations and obligations? You're not alone. This week, Pastor Heather Mandala and Licensed Professional Counselor Gabby Morreale, explore these conflicting emotions many of us face during this festive season. We’re here to assure you that it's perfectly okay to admit that holidays can be challenging and to help you navigate this journey with glimmers of hope and grace.
Thanks for being a part of the HOPE community as we continue conversations about faith and hope! You can learn more at meethope.org or find us on socials @meethopechurch. Join in for worship on Sundays at meethope.live! Have a question? Contact us at podcast@meethope.org.
Speaker 1:
Welcome to the Meet Hope podcast, where we have conversations about faith and hope. Hope is one church made of people living out their faith through two expressions in person and online. We believe a hybrid faith experience can lead to a growing influence in our community and our world for the sake of others. Welcome to Hope.
Speaker 2:
Welcome to the Meet Hope podcast. My name is Heather Mandela and I am your host today. I am really excited because we are amping up. It is close to holiday time one of my favorite times of the year and I have with us Gabby. Gabby, tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 3:
Sure, so I'm Gabby Marielli. I am Andrew Barber, the Worship Leader's wife. I am a licensed professional counselor in the state of Pennsylvania, new Jersey, delaware, south Carolina and Florida, so I'm working on the East Coast Fantastic. I am a mom to my beautiful miracle, cassie Joy Barber, and I am passionate about mental health.
Speaker 2:
Excellent, and that is why we're talking today, because we know that holidays can be a really tough time for mental health. It just is really stressful, and so we wanted to try and come up with some practical tips, and sometimes it's just about giving yourself permission to feel the way you feel, to admit that it's hard and that it's all those kind of things. Absolutely. So let's talk about holidays in general. How do you feel about the holidays?
Speaker 3:
So I love and loathe the holidays. I would say it's really dialectic, which I'll talk a little bit about that later. I love the lights. I love the fun, the tree lighting and the decorations and the presents and all of the things and the music. I probably, if Andrew would let me which he won't I would be listening to Christmas music in October on our second date. I did play him. Merry Christmas, happy Holidays by. Nsync and he stuck around so I am really lucky.
Speaker 3:
So I do, I do really enjoy the holidays and I also have a really tough relationship with the holidays at times, as I think we all can, because the stressors, the pressures, the expectations. The family who we love and is wonderful and can bring a lot of stuff up in all of us. So I love and loathe it.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I think that's a safe, really safe characterization. Yeah, I mean, I absolutely love the holidays and I can remember having a conversation with my one of my girls when they were younger and them saying, like I love Christmas in particular, but it's over so fast.
Speaker 2:
You know, it's all this prep and all this thought that goes into the planning and the decorating and the buying and the wrapping and the hosting, and then in a blink of an eye it's gone and it's like, well, what? Now you know you've built this up into this huge event. Yeah, yeah, and it can be. Sometimes it can be a let down.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, and I think sometimes we forget to what all the holidays in general are about. Right, like a lot of times, it is about togetherness and about celebrating, you know, jesus, or our like, our worship, or our relationship with God, or whatever it can be, or what he's done for us, whether it be him being born, him resurrecting all the things. That just goes out the window.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 3:
But I think, if we can, we've lost it, we forgot. So I think if we can sometimes somehow find a way to like weave it in, it can just like give us a little bit more peace throughout the season.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
And my other daughter would tell you that Thanksgiving is actually her favorite, oh yeah, and I think it's partly the food, but I think it's also. At least for her growing up years it was when all the extended family could come in, so we, that was always a big time for us to be able to come together and see family, and so she loved that. But that changes. Yeah, right, so now families are our family. People are older. They're all over the place. It's a different event, yeah.
Speaker 3:
That it used to be.
Speaker 2:
And it's fine and it's supposed to, but acknowledging those different seasons in life can be challenging. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:
And that it's okay. It's okay, the challenges are okay.
Speaker 1:
Yes.
Speaker 3:
Sometimes, the more we roll with them, the more we get to know them, the easier things go.
Speaker 2:
Let me tell you, we moved to paper plates a few years ago and it made everything easier and it sounds silly, but it's like no, it's not about the China, it's not about the presentation, so let's talk a little bit about that. So holidays come with cultural expectations.
Speaker 2:
Totally yes so many yes right, and each family has their own expectations how they've been raised, how you've been raised, and so it becomes all about unmet or met expectations. So hard it's, so hard, it really is. So talk to us a little bit about that. How can we maybe? What changes or what discussions can we be having in advance?
Speaker 3:
I think you know. Just asking everyone maybe, like what are you hoping for out of this holiday? And then trying to have really honest conversations of like that just might not happen and that's okay.
Speaker 1:
And it's not because I don't love you.
Speaker 3:
It's not because I don't want to do X, y or Z, but this is where I'm at and both parties may be coming to it with the defenses down. This is not me saying I don't wanna see you X, y and Z this is me saying, hey, I'm not able to do that because I work X amount of hours per week and I only have four days off over this holiday. This is what I can do.
Speaker 3:
You know and saying that, even in that, to be gracious to that person who is saying this is what I can do because that might be a lot for that person, even if to you that feels so minimal.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I can remember us having to really wrestle with this when the kids were younger too, and saying what can we? We have one week, you know, and what can we possibly get done family wise? Like how many people can we see? Where do we have to go? It was really hard and we had to come to a place where we were like we can't do this and be healthy. Right, right, right, right. We know. If we try to push and add travel or add, you know, three stops or whatever into our vacation time, we're going to end up stressed and arguing and tense and going back to work feeling worse than when we left and it's okay. And now I don't know in your experience, how do other people react to boundary settings? So when you say we can't do that, how does that go?
Speaker 3:
I'd say it depends on the day. Right Depends on the day, depends on the person. But boundaries are really, really a powerful tool in mental health. They can help us create relationships and cultivate relationships that are boundary aligned and values aligned, so that both people can get their needs met in the relationship. Or when the needs aren't being met, there can be open, healthy communication. But boundaries aren't just time, they're also time, finances, your body, your choices. Boundaries can kind of exist across the spectrum and I think when you're able to have people in your life who respect and honor your boundaries, you just have more authentic, healthy relationships. Acknowledging this is not going to be every relationship, that would be great, wouldn't it be nice? It would be so great. But I think being OK with the fact that some people are going to push back, but that doesn't mean your boundary is wrong.
Speaker 2:
Yes.
Speaker 3:
That just means you need to restate it.
Speaker 2:
Right.
Speaker 3:
Or you may need to step away. That doesn't mean forever. That doesn't mean we're saying cut anyone off. We're saying take a pause. Yes, just say OK. You know they're not able to receive this right now. That sucks. That's hard right, especially if it's someone you love and care deeply for and want them to understand. We can't always force understanding on other people. So just saying this is my boundary. I'm standing by this boundary. I can't say it any differently. I probably can't say it any nicer, but I'll try. But that's what it is.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, and just being OK with that, and also if you have the luxury of having a partner kind of deciding what those boundaries look like together. I think it's really important, especially during the holidays.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I love that, and I loved what you said as well about asking what you would like out of this.
Speaker 2:
I look back at times in my life, seasons of my life, where there was conflict around planning or where we were going to or when we were going or how long, or whatever, and I think that asking the question of the other party what is it that you are hoping for? And then being able to say, well, do you want time where the whole family is together, or is it all about a certain day, like it has to be on Thanksgiving and all I care about is Thanksgiving, or is it? I don't care, when I just want everybody in one place? And so being able to articulate and have those conversations, even for people who aren't necessarily comfortable thinking of things that way, can be helpful because we can help them articulate. Well, I guess it really isn't Thanksgiving Day I'm worried about, right, you know it's really X, y or Z that I want, and then it's like, ok, now I can work with this, you know we can get somewhere, and they may not even know what they're hung up on Without those questions.
Speaker 3:
It's so key it's in family dynamics and life in relationships in general. It's so important.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's really hard. Now. This is great, and there are some families that, even if it's a little bit different, we'll be happy to function within this Sure. But there are also families that are not going to understand this at all.
Speaker 3:
Totally absolutely.
Speaker 2:
So what advice would you give to someone in that situation? I've tried to be nice, I've tried to set boundaries. I don't know what to do anymore. I know.
Speaker 3:
I would take a deep breath if that question was coming my way. I think I would try to ask the person what they feel they need in those moments and what's important to them, and how can we, you know, set them up for success. So what would that look like to not violate your own boundary? What would that look like? And tell me why that feels hard, because sometimes that's really hard if you're a pleaser, and even if you're not a pleaser but you just love the person who's trying to push that boundary or whatever.
Speaker 2:
You're really uncomfortable with tension or disappointment, and knowing that my boundary is disappointing you is really hard for me, it's really hard yeah, so I think I would probably try to dive into that a little bit more and ask them why that feels hard and ask them if they can sit with that discomfort so that they can still honor their own needs.
Speaker 3:
Sure, if they can't, that's okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:
Which is gonna be harder? Sitting in the discomfort or pushing yourself your typical, yes, or reliving the typical, you know, holiday extravaganza? Yes, which is gonna be harder? Yes.
Speaker 3:
Which you know what? If you have to break your own boundary because you want to do what other people are asking of you, go ahead. Yeah, it is okay, that's a different ball game that is just, yes, a totally different conversation, and we know that this is hard, we know that what we're talking about does not come easy.
Speaker 3:
I can say it with ease. Heather can say it with ease because we both give counsel on the regular. She, as a pastor, has the privilege of doing that, and myself as a therapist, so we're comfortable in these conversations. It's not hard for me to tell someone no, I'm sorry, I'm not able to do that and I would still like to do this. How?
Speaker 2:
does that feel? Yes, yes, and that's huge, and I think that's a lot of. What people are looking for is language.
Speaker 3:
Yes.
Speaker 2:
You know, it's something they may intrinsically feel, but they don't know how to articulate it in a way that others can hear it Absolutely, and so half the time I feel like that is what disagreements arise over the way we presented the information, is the way we have communicated it, and there you know, it wasn't a way that they could hear what we were trying to say. So sometimes I feel like just really being able to think about your own expectations and what you need before you articulate it can help others understand where you're coming from Absolutely.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. So now, this is also one of those times of the year that can really be difficult if we have lost someone Right, and so grief can hit real and hit hard Absolutely. The holidays are those big firsts and you know, when I meet with people who have lost someone year in dear to them, we talk about the fact that this whole first year of loss is going to be a year of firsts. And even if it's not your first, if it's your 15th, it's still hard. There are still challenges. What would you suggest for someone who might be wrestling with a year of firsts, or even a year, a third year of?
Speaker 3:
I would say, if possible, find your tribe and hold them tight. You are not meant to do life alone and especially when we are grieving, we need community. Even when it feels like the last thing we want, because I know sometimes, as someone who has grieved herself, feeling like that burden. You are not a burden. Your sadness, your loss is not a burden. It is part of your story and the people who love you want to come in and be there with you through it.
Speaker 3:
They want to carry you when you can't, and it's okay. It's beyond okay. I would also say take the pressure off. You don't need to host Unless you want to. You don't need to do all the gifting, you don't need to do all the preparing. If you are getting out of bed and showering, I am cheering you on.
Speaker 3:
Yes, that's a win so hard, huge win, huge win, and whoever you're with will thank you for that Truly. Whatever you are capable of doing in those days, in those moments is enough. So I think really just taking the pressure off will go so far, but really tap into your people.
Speaker 2:
They want to be there for you. There are times in our lives, too, where we've just said like, hey, we're touching go, it's going to depend on that morning. So we love you, but we may be calling you the day of and saying we are just not going to make it, or we may show up with those on. But that grace to yourself and having those conversations in advance. So no one is surprised, no one is shocked.
Speaker 2:
They defend yeah, exactly, but they get it Like hey, where I am right now, and maybe it's grief and loss. Maybe it's a child who's recently been diagnosed and you know that having a child around a whole bunch of other people is going to trigger them and it's going to trigger you. So you just need to be small right now and that is okay. It's giving yourself permission to do what you need to do and taking a second for some of our listeners and saying you may be on the opposite side of this. Someone may be saying to you we just don't know if we're going to be able to come this year, we just don't know if we can do this this year. And recognizing it's not about me, it's not about my feelings, it's not about my expectations. I'm going to offer them grace.
Speaker 3:
And knowing what it probably took for them to say that that probably took so much courage and so much strength and know that it's not personal. And one of the best things I know that people did for me was they stopped asking me what I needed and they started just doing things for me. That was so helpful.
Speaker 2:
That's really good to know.
Speaker 3:
I'm in a tough place, I'm not going to be able to come. Of course, our first and this is so natural, natural reaction and say what do you need? How can I help? There is nothing wrong. You are not a bad person for having that reaction. That is beautiful, it's your empathy coming out, and if that person is saying that they don't know they might not know, and they may say I'm fine, I just need to step away this year or whatever.
Speaker 3:
But just if you can think of something small to do for that person, I want to encourage you to do that.
Speaker 2:
Gosh, even just a handwritten note or dropping off a meal in the front porch that they don't have to know. Interaction, even Just. I'm thinking of you and here's a bag of groceries.
Speaker 3:
A $1.00 Venmo for a cup of coffee. Anything, it goes such a long way it really does.
Speaker 2:
It is those little glimpses that allow people who are in the midst of it to get from one glimpse to the next, one little glimmer to the next glimmer, and to hold on to that. And we do want to encourage you. If you are listening right now and you are feeling overwhelmed, if you are feeling alone or isolated or just like you don't know what's next, we want to encourage you that it will be okay. Don't hesitate to reach out.
Speaker 3:
There is help available. Whether it's through your church community, whether it's through a mental health provider, whether it's through a friend, you don't have to do it alone.
Speaker 2:
You don't. And here, specifically at Hope, you know, we would love to put you in touch with people. If we can, we would love to provide you with resources If we can. We would love to be able to say, hey, this is a great person to talk to and to partner with you as you walk through this season of life. Yes, absolutely so, and the holidays still can hold glimmers of joy and glimmers of excitement and moments that you can see hope right. And so sometimes, when we can't see it ourselves, we have to trust other people to point it out to us.
Speaker 3:
Yes, I recently learned what a glimmer was and I have to say that was like, so moving to me, which is just like these tiny moments of joy or these tiny moments of hope. It's supposed to be the opposite of a trigger. Yes, and I feel like ever since learning that, I'm just looking for them everywhere. I am looking for them.
Speaker 2:
I keep saying I'm gonna create a whole account, just on glimmers, you should do it. My 85,000 accounts, yeah, all extra time I have, yeah, but I do, I feel like I need it. You know, and it's one of those things that I think that as we start to notice, you know, for me it's ways that God just shows me he's with me. You know, there's little glimmers, that piece of hope, that piece of faith, that piece of whatever that just says okay, I'm not alone, I'm not alone.
Speaker 3:
And he is with us, always, always. I think that's something too that I know. When I was in the midst of my struggle, I would unintentionally of course forget that he was with me.
Speaker 2:
Yes.
Speaker 3:
He's always with every single one of us, even when we feel really distant and the holidays can bring that up too, Especially when we're feeling distant from others or distant from ourselves maybe. God is always with you and there's nothing too big for him. Nothing too big for him.
Speaker 2:
Yes, he's always with us. Nothing is too big. You are so right, and we hope that those of you listening today have found some glimmer in this conversation right, some piece that you can hold on to, and if you are interested in continuing the conversation, I wanna encourage you to do so across social media channels or reach out to us. Our contact information is available on the Meet Hope podcast page. So thank you so much and have a great holiday season ["Holiday Season"].
Speaker 1:
Thanks for being a part of the Hope community as we continue our conversations about faith and hope. If you don't already, please join us for worship on Sundays or on demand. You can learn more at meethopeorg or find us on socials at meethopechurch.